the best thoughts you'll ever find on effective policing ...

[Legacy User]

P.S. My dept. is huge on "customer service" We go every time someone calls no matter if it is a law enforcement issue or not, an officer just got dispatched to a sick cat call.
I went to a call to install a light bulb a few years ago.

Glad to hear that.

One of the reasons i posted the Peel principles is it seems both the us and them
Have lost sight of the idea of mutality....that we are all in this together....

[Legacy User]

Yes that's what cops look for every day, we pray, that we can shoot someone ever time we go to work.
I worked last night , and damn it I didn't shoot anyone, I did catch two burglary suspects, and took them into custody without putting a scratch on either one.
But maybe I can get LUCKY tonight ,and get a KILL.

I have shot and killed an armed robbery suspect that pointed his gun at me, after I told him to drop it. I guess I used excessive force, maybe I should have just shot the gun out of his hands like they do in the movies.
Oh well, I guess I'm a limp dick.

What a clown.

I think you should've just taken a bullet and sent him to anger management counseling

No reasonable person thinks that

Why can UK cops function fine without guns?

[Pabst]

....that we are all in this together....

I have my doubts that members of MS-13, meth manufacturers, serial killers, rapists, etc. buy into this mentality.

[Legacy User]

....that we are all in this together....

I have my doubts that members of MS-13, meth manufacturers, serial killers, rapists, etc. buy into this mentality.

Kumbaya.

[Legacy User]

....that we are all in this together....

I have my doubts that members of MS-13, meth manufacturers, serial killers, rapists, etc. buy into this mentality.

Unfortunately....the huge majority of police contact with the public
Doesnt deal with organized crime or serial criminals

[Pabst]

No, but a majority of police interaction with the public does involve someone breaking the law. Could be for something as minor as a parking ticket. Newsflash: people break the law at a much higher rate than there is police misconduct. Seems to me that if "we're all in this together" then people wouldn't break the law, no matter how minor the offense.
TL;DR - your premise is absurd

[cop1211]

Correct and a huge majority of those contacts do not end with physical confrontation or shooting.
As I posted earlier the police have over 1 million contacts per day with just black Americans with 99% ending with no engagement.

Since the beginning of policing there have been people that comply with the law, and there have been people that haven't complied.
There have been people that hate the police because they are criminals, and feel the law doesn't, or shouldn't apply to them.
There will always be people that second guess and criticize police action.
People's view point or opinions are formed on a variety different ways.
Policing a community in today's culture is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

A majority of police and a majority of the population are decent people.
For a society to be a civil one their has to be law and order. Unfortunately without people to be there enforcing the laws be it traffic to whatever, some people would not follow the law and do what the feel like, and be predators on the weak and the innocent. Those types of people sometimes assault or try to kill the law enforcers. My number one responsibility is to go home alive, I will do whatever is needed to do to accomplish that. Sometimes that takes physical force, or deadly force.
For every exsessive force case you hear or see there is 50 times that done on officers.
An officer is killed in the line of duty approximately every 72 hours in the United States.
Look at the 2 PA troopers both shot, one killed for simply talking outside of their barracks, or the 4 NYPD officers who were taking pictures with tourist and then ambushed with a hatchet.
Then people wonder why officers sometimes have an us versus them mentality?
Or you go into a neighbor hood on a shooting where their were 20 witnesses and no one wants to even talk to the police.
Most normal people who are anti police just don't understand what it is really about.
Again I urge everyone to go do a ride along with your local law enforcement agency it might just give you a different perspective.

[Legacy User]

Yes that's what cops look for every day, we pray, that we can shoot someone ever time we go to work.
I worked last night , and damn it I didn't shoot anyone, I did catch two burglary suspects, and took them into custody without putting a scratch on either one.
But maybe I can get LUCKY tonight ,and get a KILL.

I have shot and killed an armed robbery suspect that pointed his gun at me, after I told him to drop it. I guess I used excessive force, maybe I should have just shot the gun out of his hands like they do in the movies.
Oh well, I guess I'm a limp dick.

What a clown.

I think you should've just taken a bullet and sent him to anger management counseling

No reasonable person thinks that

Why can UK cops function fine without guns?

Because the citizens in the united kingdom are more civilized than Americans and people have had, since WWII, robust social safety nets so people tend not to engage in actions as desperate as they do here. Also, there are much tighter firearm restrictions since people in the UK don't think God wants them to own guns. Before you flame me, I grew up in Texas. I'm not joking about that last comment.

[Pabst]

Because the citizens in the united kingdom are more civilized than Americans and people have had, since WWII, robust social safety nets so people tend not to engage in actions as desperate as they do here. Also, there are much tighter firearm restrictions since people in the UK don't think God wants them to own guns. Before you flame me, I grew up in Texas. I'm not joking about that last comment.

The simpler answer is "tasers": http://www.channel4.com/news/taser-firings-the-inside-story

[Legacy User]

No, but a majority of police interaction with the public does involve someone breaking the law. Could be for something as minor as a parking ticket. Newsflash: people break the law at a much higher rate than there is police misconduct. Seems to me that if "we're all in this together" then people wouldn't break the law, no matter how minor the offense.
TL;DR - your premise is absurd

No its not

Its historically successful on a vast level

Of course if a few paragraphs are too long to read i dont doubt your
Lack of knoweldge.

[Pabst]

I'd really enjoy it if you'd address the points Cop and I made rather than just saying "No" and hurling an insult.

[Legacy User]

I'd really enjoy it if you'd address the points Cop and I made rather than just saying "No" and hurling an insult.

And id really enjoy if youd address the 9 well respected in the LE community
Points i posted rather than just saying tldr and flippantly brushing aside
Any valid even consideration of such.....but...

Cant always get what you want

[Pabst]

And id really enjoy if youd address the 9 well respected in the LE community
Points i posted rather than just saying tldr and flippantly brushing aside
Any valid even consideration of such.....but...

Cant always get what you want

I wrote a full paragraph, which you have yet to acknowledge. Cop wrote several paragraphs, which you have yet to acknowledge. I was specifically addressing this comment you made:

One of the reasons i posted the Peel principles is it seems both the us and them
Have lost sight of the idea of mutality....that we are all in this together....

The tl;dr line was directed at my own post, not yours (as in, if you didn't want to read my full post, just take it to mean "STD's premise is absurd". It was a joke that was apparently lost on you). I did not brush aside anything you've said - you are the one that's refusing to defend your position.

[Legacy User]

-The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and
disorder.
-The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public
approval of police actions.
-Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary
observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of
the public.
-The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured
diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
-Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion
but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
-Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance
of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion,
advice and warning is found to be insufficient.
-Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that
gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and
the public are the police; the police being only members of the public
who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent
on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
-Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions
and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.
-The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not
the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

[Legacy User]

Perhaps my "we are all in this together" is too short shrifted.

Feel free to discuss any of the 9 principles in the above post
As those represent my feelings much more accurately

[cop1211]

I'm still not clear what point your trying to get across? Yes the Peel principles are a good blueprint.

Are you implying that those principles are not being followed by every department and every officer?
The bible is the best blueprint, but people are people. No one is perfect, no department is perfect, no officer is perfect. Every case or controversy Should be thoroughly investigated which they are.
The problem is when people refuse to believe in the evidence and determination that is made.
Based off of prejudice that they harbour.
Jesus himself could come down and say the officer in Ferguson is innocent.
Some people are still going to riot and say the officer is a racist murderer.
It is what it is.

[Legacy User]

Correct me if im wrong here....was he in fact not unarmed?

How's the cop in question supposed to know if somebody's unarmed in the heat of being attacked by 6'4" Michael Brown? At this point the forensic evidence pretty much backs up the officer's side of the story, and there are witnesses who back up his story too (although the media didn't want to hear from those particular witnesses because it doesn't fit their narrative). Michael Brown didn't submit to a pat down. So how is the cop supposed to know if he was armed or not?

[Legacy User]

Correct me if im wrong here....was he in fact not unarmed?

How's the cop in question supposed to know if somebody's unarmed in the heat of being attacked by 6'4" Michael Brown? At this point the forensic evidence pretty much backs up the officer's side of the story, and there are witnesses who back up his story too (although the media didn't want to hear from those particular witnesses because it doesn't fit their narrative). Michael Brown didn't submit to a pat down. So how is the cop supposed to know if he was armed or not?

Tell me the officers version of the story.....

[cop1211]

Attacked while sitting in vehicle. Brown reportedly punches, and crushed officers left eye socket.(serious bodily injury).
Brown attempts to grab officer gun. Reportedly Browns blood found inside of patrol vehicle. Browns blood found on officers weapon, and clothing. Brown shot at point blank range.
Officer exits the vehicle, Brown charges officer, Brown has already presented a deadly force threat by committing serious bodily harm. Crushed eye socket, as well as attempting to remove the officers handgun.
Officer shoots Brown to stop the deadly force threat.
Reportedly multiple black witnesses support the officers statement in front of the grand jury.

Grand jury verdict and findings supposed to be imminent.
Evidence, and testimony will be shown to exonerate the officer.
Rioting will follow.
Book it.

[Pabst]

Tell me the officers version of the story.....

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Darren+Wilson+account+of+shooting

[Legacy User]

I'm still not clear what point your trying to get across? Yes the Peel principles are a good blueprint.

Are you implying that those principles are not being followed by every department and every officer?
The bible is the best blueprint, but people are people. No one is perfect, no department is perfect, no officer is perfect.

Cop...my guess is you are a real good guy.....superb.....why was your 1st response
Dirty harry and not the cat stuck in a tree?.....why the defensive reply framed around
"A contact sport".....forgive me for putting you on the spot.....sincerely.....

I think those have much more to do with a culture that needs some tweaking rather *than*
You or any of your fellow officers individually...I dont honestly know all the answers...
If i had to guess i might say our....and i sincerely mean everyone not just cops although
It is unique and much more applicable to them....current police culture doesnt encourage
Much introspection or much contemplation of higher ideals like the peel points....and
That is an underlying issue that effects us all in a way thats difficult to simply correct

[Legacy User]

I'm still not clear what point your trying to get across? Yes the Peel principles are a good blueprint.

Are you implying that those principles are not being followed by every department and every officer?
The bible is the best blueprint, but people are people. No one is perfect, no department is perfect, no officer is perfect.

Cop...my guess is you are a real good guy.....superb.....why was your 1st response
Dirty harry and not the cat stuck in a tree?.....why the defensive reply framed around
"A contact sport".....forgive me for putting you on the spot.....sincerely.....

I think those have much more to do with a culture that needs some tweaking rather
You or any of your fellow officers individually...I dont honestly know all the answers...
If i had to guess i might say our....and i sincerely mean everyone not just cops although
It is unique and much more applicable to them....current police culture doesnt encourage
Much introspection or much contemplation of higher ideals like the peel points....and
That is an underlying issue that effects us all in a way thats difficult to simply correct

I think the Dirty Harry reference may have been sarcasm. ( )

[Legacy User]

Attacked while sitting in vehicle. Brown reportedly punches, and crushed officers left eye socket.(serious bodily injury).
Brown attempts to grab officer gun. Reportedly Browns blood found inside of patrol vehicle. Browns blood found on officers weapon, and clothing. Brown shot at point blank range.
Officer exits the vehicle, Brown charges officer, Brown has already presented a deadly force threat by committing serious bodily harm. Crushed eye socket, as well as attempting to remove the officers handgun.
Officer shoots Brown to stop the deadly force threat.
Reportedly multiple black witnesses support the officers statement in front of the grand jury.
Grand jury verdict and findings supposed to be imminent.
Evidence, and testimony will be shown to exonerate the officer.
Rioting will follow.
Book it.

If thats the truth id have shot him too...

Whats the other sides version?....

[Legacy User]

Attacked while sitting in vehicle. Brown reportedly punches, and crushed officers left eye socket.(serious bodily injury).
Brown attempts to grab officer gun. Reportedly Browns blood found inside of patrol vehicle. Browns blood found on officers weapon, and clothing. Brown shot at point blank range.
Officer exits the vehicle, Brown charges officer, Brown has already presented a deadly force threat by committing serious bodily harm. Crushed eye socket, as well as attempting to remove the officers handgun.
Officer shoots Brown to stop the deadly force threat.
Reportedly multiple black witnesses support the officers statement in front of the grand jury.
Grand jury verdict and findings supposed to be imminent.
Evidence, and testimony will be shown to exonerate the officer.
Rioting will follow.
Book it.

If thats the truth id have shot him too...

Whats the other sides version?....

The other side's version is something along the lines of:

Poor, innocent Michael Brown, who would never hurt a fly, was just walking down the middle of the street with his buddy (probably headed to Bible study or something) and this racist cop flies up on them and starts screaming at them. Then the racist cop grabs Brown and tries to pull him into the car, but Brown gets away and tries to run. The racist cop gets out of his vehicle and tells Brown to stop, so Brown turns around and puts his hands up, which is when the racist cop executed him in cold blood right in the middle of the street.

[Legacy User]

See.....Pierogi.....thats the kind of dumb unfunny trying to be funny bullshit
That attempts to void any real contemplation or discussion

Congrats

[cop1211]

But you see when the grand Jury testimony and the evidence is presented.
Some people will refuse to believe it. They will say the grand jury was rigged by the man.
The black witnesses that supported Wilsons account are liers, or were paid off.
Officer Wilson is a racist executioner. Every white cop is a jack booted Nazi thug, and every black officer is an Uncle Tom, and that every officer uses exsessive force, violates everyone rights, and abuses their power.

I've found one thing in 18 years of law enforcement, and that one thing is
You can't fix stupid.
Just another day in law enforcement. It doesn't stop me from going out and doing my job the best I can. I treat people with courtesy, and professionalism no matter their economic situation, race, color, or creed.
I don't judge anyone on anything except the content of their character.
I'll treat you the same way you treat me.
If you want to shake my hand, I'll shake your hand, if you want fight me, I'll fight you.
If you want to kill me, I'll try to kill you.

[Legacy User]

Cop...whats the other sides version of the story?....without the pierogi nonesense
If possible?

[cop1211]

What Peroigi wrote is pretty much spot on to what people are saying. Have you not heard the testimony from Browns strong arm robbery cohort? Or the "witnesses" who said Brown was shot in the back, and shot with his hands up? All of that has been proven to be lies. Autopsy is already out. Not one shot in the back, not one shot from a hands up position.

Browns buddy who is an accomplice to the felony strong arm robbery, life long criminal, and who at the time had an active warrant for his arrest. Said they were just walking down the street when Wilson pulled up to them for no reason and started yelling at them to move from the street.
He said Wilson then grabbed a 6'4 300 pound Briwn and pulled Brown into the vehicle.
(Does that sound plausible to any rational thinking person? That a police officer would grab a 6'4 300 pound suspect and pull him inside of the vehicle on top of him???)
He then stated Wilson got out of the vehicle and shot Brown in the back as Brown was running away. He then stated Brown turned around with his hands fully extended in the air, and was subsequently shot and executed by Officer Wilson.
Again autopsy results , and Physical evidence has proven this to be a lie.

[Legacy User]

See.....Pierogi.....thats the kind of dumb unfunny trying to be funny bullshit
That attempts to void any real contemplation or discussion

Congrats

But that's what the other side was actually claiming. Did you not follow the Ferguson story at all? The media ran with the version of events that had the officer as the aggressor and Brown holding his hands above his head when he was shot.

[cop1211]

PS
Brown has a sealed juvenile record. Records are said to be that he was a suspect in a murder.(allegedly)
Browns mother is now a suspect in an aggravated battery /armed robbery case where she and another family member attacked a couple of black people With a bat that were selling t shirts with Browns image, and stole the money from the shirt sale.(Allegedly)
The above should show the content of the Browns character.