Heyward Wants New Contract

[Steel Bingo]

Everything you said is true, Bingo.

But a lot of fans don't want to fucking hear it. Cam has been paid many times in his career now. Taken care of quite well. What he hasn't had is playoff success of any kind and rather than focus on that and the team winning, he's talking about a lack of respect because he's not one of the highest paid DL in football at his age.

This is a guy who spent last off-season talking about his legacy and how he's a HOF'er.

Your legacy isn't shit without a ring to many fans.

That' he's Tomlin's right hand man in the locker room also doesn't sit well with many.

So in a bubble, yea he deserves more money. But no one wants to fucking hear it right now. At his age, many think his focus should be on winning what he can while he can.

Heyward's performance last season endorsed his claims for HOF consideration. He sounded off boldly, but then he backed it up with his play.

Maybe some of the fans do not want to hear it, but they also should appreciate that there is nothing virtuous about ignoring the contributions of a longtime superstar who is taking it one season at a time due to concerns that his play could fall off a cliff. Year to year deals at this stage of his career is the best for both sides.

Everyone is ready to see the Steelers and Cam win some playoff games. I am too. He'll have more support this year than just Keeanu Benton along the DL - thank heaven. It's been along time coming in Pittsburgh to see some able bodied big men join the thrust from the trenches on the defensive line.

[W&M_Steeler]

Everything you said is true, Bingo.

But a lot of fans don't want to fucking hear it. Cam has been paid many times in his career now. Taken care of quite well. What he hasn't had is playoff success of any kind and rather than focus on that and the team winning, he's talking about a lack of respect because he's not one of the highest paid DL in football at his age.

This is a guy who spent last off-season talking about his legacy and how he's a HOF'er.

Your legacy isn't shit without a ring to many fans.

That' he's Tomlin's right hand man in the locker room also doesn't sit well with many.

So in a bubble, yea he deserves more money. But no one wants to fucking hear it right now. At his age, many think his focus should be on winning what he can while he can.

Heyward's performance last season endorsed his claims for HOF consideration. He sounded off boldly, but then he backed it up with his play.

Maybe some of the fans do not want to hear it, but they also should appreciate that there is nothing virtuous about ignoring the contributions of a longtime superstar who is taking it one season at a time due to concerns that his play could fall off a cliff. Year to year deals at this stage of his career is the best for both sides.

Everyone is ready to see the Steelers and Cam win some playoff games. I am too. He'll have more support this year than just Keeanu Benton along the DL - thank heaven. It's been along time coming in Pittsburgh to see some able bodied big men join the thrust from the trenches on the defensive line.

Just curious- what would you say Cam's contributions have been? What are the biggest plays of his career? And how many of those happened after October?

And this isn't the first time Cam has had help on the D-Line. The 2017 D-Line was probably better but it made no difference in the end. Cam was anonymous in the playoffs.

CK pointed out the reasons Cam is obnoxious. Maybe in a vacuum you can come up with arguments for Cam getting paid. But I don't see him as some all-time Steelers great. He's the face of Tomlin ball and embodies what's wrong with it. He's an arrogant and self-important phony who cares more about personal accomplishments than winning. He plays well when there's no pressure but disappears when it counts. He's NHALS in human form.

[Steel Bingo]

Heyward was first team All-Pro 3 times during the Steelers’ five year run of being #1 in sacks from 2017-2021. He averaged about 8.5 sacks himself those seasons. He added another 10.5 sacks in ’22. His 53.5 sacks from 2017 – 2022 is one of the top production runs for a 3-4 DE in league history.

From 2021 through 2024 there were no other top quality defensive lineman on the Pittsburgh roster. Some were above average, but no upper echelon players.

The entire defense fell apart in 2017 vs. the Jags. I’m not sure anyone on that unit had the same killer instinct after what happened to Shazier earlier that season.

#97 is still one of the only players in the league who can ragdoll a 300lb man, Reggie White style. Just move him out of the way because he feels like it.

Cam was first team All-Pro last season. That honor is not simply handed out. He earned it.

[anpsteel]

Everything you said is true, Bingo.

But a lot of fans don't want to fucking hear it. Cam has been paid many times in his career now. Taken care of quite well. What he hasn't had is playoff success of any kind and rather than focus on that and the team winning, he's talking about a lack of respect because he's not one of the highest paid DL in football at his age.

This is a guy who spent last off-season talking about his legacy and how he's a HOF'er.

Your legacy isn't shit without a ring to many fans.

That' he's Tomlin's right hand man in the locker room also doesn't sit well with many.

So in a bubble, yea he deserves more money. But no one wants to fucking hear it right now. At his age, many think his focus should be on winning what he can while he can.

Heyward's performance last season endorsed his claims for HOF consideration. He sounded off boldly, but then he backed it up with his play.

Maybe some of the fans do not want to hear it, but they also should appreciate that there is nothing virtuous about ignoring the contributions of a longtime superstar who is taking it one season at a time due to concerns that his play could fall off a cliff. Year to year deals at this stage of his career is the best for both sides.

Everyone is ready to see the Steelers and Cam win some playoff games. I am too. He'll have more support this year than just Keeanu Benton along the DL - thank heaven. It's been along time coming in Pittsburgh to see some able bodied big men join the thrust from the trenches on the defensive line.

Just curious- what would you say Cam's contributions have been? What are the biggest plays of his career? And how many of those happened after October?

And this isn't the first time Cam has had help on the D-Line. The 2017 D-Line was probably better but it made no difference in the end. Cam was anonymous in the playoffs.

CK pointed out the reasons Cam is obnoxious. Maybe in a vacuum you can come up with arguments for Cam getting paid. But I don't see him as some all-time Steelers great. He's the face of Tomlin ball and embodies what's wrong with it. He's an arrogant and self-important phony who cares more about personal accomplishments than winning. He plays well when there's no pressure but disappears when it counts. He's NHALS in human form.

I know this was not directed toward me, but I’m going to jump in here

What were Aaron Smith’s accomplishments or Brett Kiesel? Stephon Tuitt?

The DE in the Steelers defensive scheme has always been gap control

That Cam has been able to put up the sack numbers he has while also being by far their strongest run defender is a pretty extraordinary accomplishment

Add to it that 75% of the time he’s forced to do this with just two down lineman. Himself, and all too frequently, just another guy.

I am wildly perplexed by the negativity towards, not just one of the Steelers best defensive players over the past decade, but potentially one of their best defenders of all time

The guy regularly controls his side of the line of scrimmage. Rarely misses games due to injury. And is above and away one of the actual best character people on the team.


The optics of this contract situation are extremely poor, but to suggest that Cam is neither worth it or doing the job as he’s required, is just off target


On the rare occasions that Cam is not on the field, think back to just how amazingly shitty the run defense was

And I’ll reiterate the defensive performance in the playoffs by Cam, or any other player, is not a reflection of their ability or effort. It is simply the outcome of a highly inferior job done by the coaching staff, in preparation and scheme implementation.

For at least the past five years by week 10 the defense is completely gassed

Tomlin’s dumb fucking game strategy of play not to lose and try to win in the fourth quarter, puts an incredible over reliance upon the defense


Because Cam has no comparable back up, he plays about 90% of the defensive snaps. (As does TJ and many other key defenders)

So in the back half of the season when the offense still sucks and still can’t maintain time of possession or a score, the defense is forced to do it again and again

We all know how the end of the seasons have played out

So everybody can bitch and moan about Cam asking for more money, one year after he previously asked for more money; but be clear his performance over the years is above and beyond warranting the raise.

[W&M_Steeler]

Heyward was first team All-Pro 3 times during the Steelers’ five year run of being #1 in sacks from 2017-2021. He averaged about 8.5 sacks himself those seasons. He added another 10.5 sacks in ’22. His 53.5 sacks from 2017 – 2022 is one of the top production runs for a 3-4 DE in league history.

From 2021 through 2024 there were no other top quality defensive lineman on the Pittsburgh roster. Some were above average, but no upper echelon players.

The entire defense fell apart in 2017 vs. the Jags. I’m not sure anyone on that unit had the same killer instinct after what happened to Shazier earlier that season.

#97 is still one of the only players in the league who can ragdoll a 300lb man, Reggie White style. Just move him out of the way because he feels like it.

Cam was first team All-Pro last season. That honor is not simply handed out. He earned it.

So Heyward is a stat machine that plays his best in the Fall. Great. I'm not saying he sucks. I am saying he builds stats early in the season and disappears down the stretch. He ultimately hasn't contributed much of anything when it counts, and excusing the retched performance in the 2017 playoffs because of one player being injured highlights that. Isn't that the type of game where a guy like Cam, a supposed leader and HoF caliber player in his athletic prime should have stepped up and started throwing people around? Made people aware of his presence Help contribute to a key 4th quarter stop? Pointing to Shazier lets Cam off the hook way too easily. I have a hard time imaging other Hall of Fame Dlinemen being such non-factors.

[Steel Bingo]

Not sure it is fair to expect one man, even if he is a leader, to rally his teammates when their brother and emerging centerpiece of the defense was in a hospital bed wearing a halo with everyone concerned that he would recover to live a normal life again. Thankfully he has.

The team has been humiliated in playoff losses for too long now, but it's not legitimate to put all of it onto one defensive lineman.

[W&M_Steeler]

Not sure it is fair to expect one man, even if he is a leader, to rally his teammates when their brother and emerging centerpiece of the defense was in a hospital bed wearing a halo with everyone concerned that he would recover to live a normal life again. Thankfully he has.

The team has been humiliated in playoff losses for too long now, but it's not legitimate to put all of it onto one defensive lineman.

It's certainly not all on Cam, but it definitely is somewhat on him. His post-season performance has simply been lacking throughout his career. Shazier's injury was tragic, but it was well over a month before the Jags playoff game. I don't think mental anguish is a good excuse for allowing Fournette and Bortles to have their way. I would understand had they lost in the AFCC game against the Pats, but that Jags game was a debacle (worst Steelers loss of my 40+ year life) and Cam was front and center for it.

[W&M_Steeler]

Heyward's performance last season endorsed his claims for HOF consideration. He sounded off boldly, but then he backed it up with his play.

Maybe some of the fans do not want to hear it, but they also should appreciate that there is nothing virtuous about ignoring the contributions of a longtime superstar who is taking it one season at a time due to concerns that his play could fall off a cliff. Year to year deals at this stage of his career is the best for both sides.

Everyone is ready to see the Steelers and Cam win some playoff games. I am too. He'll have more support this year than just Keeanu Benton along the DL - thank heaven. It's been along time coming in Pittsburgh to see some able bodied big men join the thrust from the trenches on the defensive line.

Just curious- what would you say Cam's contributions have been? What are the biggest plays of his career? And how many of those happened after October?

And this isn't the first time Cam has had help on the D-Line. The 2017 D-Line was probably better but it made no difference in the end. Cam was anonymous in the playoffs.

CK pointed out the reasons Cam is obnoxious. Maybe in a vacuum you can come up with arguments for Cam getting paid. But I don't see him as some all-time Steelers great. He's the face of Tomlin ball and embodies what's wrong with it. He's an arrogant and self-important phony who cares more about personal accomplishments than winning. He plays well when there's no pressure but disappears when it counts. He's NHALS in human form.

I know this was not directed toward me, but I’m going to jump in here

What were Aaron Smith’s accomplishments or Brett Kiesel? Stephon Tuitt?

The difference is that Cam is allegedly a Hall of Famer, and these guys aren't. I think it's fair to expect more from Cam than from them. Even still, the Beard's playoff stats are comparable to Cam's (setting aside the fact that Kiesel had a Super Bowl winning fumble recovery). I think Aaron Smith was better against the run than Cam, and I bet prime Aaron Smith would have had a better showing in that 2017 Jags game than Cam did.

And I’ll reiterate the defensive performance in the playoffs by Cam, or any other player, is not a reflection of their ability or effort. It is simply the outcome of a highly inferior job done by the coaching staff, in preparation and scheme implementation...
So in the back half of the season when the offense still sucks and still can’t maintain time of possession or a score, the defense is forced to do it again and again

This overlooks the first half of Cam's career. Can't blame 2017 on a bad offense, for example.

Tomlin certainly bears significant responsibility for the futility of the past decade+, but it's hard to justify giving Cam a free pass for never being a factor late in the season. He's had plenty of chances to step up and be a difference maker, but he just hasn't, at least not in the postseason.

[anpsteel]

Just curious- what would you say Cam's contributions have been? What are the biggest plays of his career? And how many of those happened after October?

And this isn't the first time Cam has had help on the D-Line. The 2017 D-Line was probably better but it made no difference in the end. Cam was anonymous in the playoffs.

CK pointed out the reasons Cam is obnoxious. Maybe in a vacuum you can come up with arguments for Cam getting paid. But I don't see him as some all-time Steelers great. He's the face of Tomlin ball and embodies what's wrong with it. He's an arrogant and self-important phony who cares more about personal accomplishments than winning. He plays well when there's no pressure but disappears when it counts. He's NHALS in human form.

I know this was not directed toward me, but I’m going to jump in here

What were Aaron Smith’s accomplishments or Brett Kiesel? Stephon Tuitt?

The difference is that Cam is allegedly a Hall of Famer, and these guys aren't. I think it's fair to expect more from Cam than from them. Even still, the Beard's playoff stats are comparable to Cam's (setting aside the fact that Kiesel had a Super Bowl winning fumble recovery). I think Aaron Smith was better against the run than Cam, and I bet prime Aaron Smith would have had a better showing in that 2017 Jags game than Cam did.

And I’ll reiterate the defensive performance in the playoffs by Cam, or any other player, is not a reflection of their ability or effort. It is simply the outcome of a highly inferior job done by the coaching staff, in preparation and scheme implementation...
So in the back half of the season when the offense still sucks and still can’t maintain time of possession or a score, the defense is forced to do it again and again

This overlooks the first half of Cam's career. Can't blame 2017 on a bad offense, for example.

Tomlin certainly bears significant responsibility for the futility of the past decade+, but it's hard to justify giving Cam a free pass for never being a factor late in the season.

I understand your points - but for me, almost all responsibility for poor defensive performance, post Lebeau, falls upon the dunce


That and the fact that they play in passing sub packages 75%+ now

That 2 down linemen configuration has been a problem against the run since Cowher installed the 3-4, and it’s only gotten worse as the team puts smaller more pass coverage capable ILBs on the field

Hell, they let their best run defender walk this past off season

[Gonzo]

unfortunately for Cam it seems he made a decision early on to be tied at the hip with Tomlin. The overall approach of this team to football and especially playoff games has been a disaster of their own making.

I agree that it’s unfair from a pure performance perspective to saddle the players with Tomlins foolishly simple and repeated approach - it’s far too easy to neutralize top players in his dumb game plan. But, a good company man must also eat some shit in the end when things don’t go according to the plan - especially when the Plan is so obviously bad.

[.Kodiak]

unfortunately for Cam it seems he made a decision early on to be tied at the hip with Tomlin. The overall approach of this team to football and especially playoff games has been a disaster of their own making.

Very true. A scrub runs a lazy route and he gets cut. One of Tomlin's guys takes a play off and Tomlin will give him a day off to "recharge".

[gojira5150]

Everything you said is true, Bingo.

But a lot of fans don't want to fucking hear it. Cam has been paid many times in his career now. Taken care of quite well. What he hasn't had is playoff success of any kind and rather than focus on that and the team winning, he's talking about a lack of respect because he's not one of the highest paid DL in football at his age.

This is a guy who spent last off-season talking about his legacy and how he's a HOF'er.

Your legacy isn't shit without a ring to many fans.

That' he's Tomlin's right hand man in the locker room also doesn't sit well with many.

So in a bubble, yea he deserves more money. But no one wants to fucking hear it right now. At his age, many think his focus should be on winning what he can while he can.

Heyward's performance last season endorsed his claims for HOF consideration. He sounded off boldly, but then he backed it up with his play.

Maybe some of the fans do not want to hear it, but they also should appreciate that there is nothing virtuous about ignoring the contributions of a longtime superstar who is taking it one season at a time due to concerns that his play could fall off a cliff. Year to year deals at this stage of his career is the best for both sides.

Everyone is ready to see the Steelers and Cam win some playoff games. I am too. He'll have more support this year than just Keeanu Benton along the DL - thank heaven. It's been along time coming in Pittsburgh to see some able bodied big men join the thrust from the trenches on the defensive line.

Just curious- what would you say Cam's contributions have been? What are the biggest plays of his career? And how many of those happened after October?

And this isn't the first time Cam has had help on the D-Line. The 2017 D-Line was probably better but it made no difference in the end. Cam was anonymous in the playoffs.

CK pointed out the reasons Cam is obnoxious. Maybe in a vacuum you can come up with arguments for Cam getting paid. But I don't see him as some all-time Steelers great. He's the face of Tomlin ball and embodies what's wrong with it. He's an arrogant and self-important phony who cares more about personal accomplishments than winning. He plays well when there's no pressure but disappears when it counts. He's NHALS in human form.

I am tired of Cam and his BS. Do something anything in the PO's. I don't want to hear about Jibbas Defense game planning. You don't think Aaron Donaldson went off script and just totally dominated when he needed to.
Aaron played at 6'2 290lbs and was a total wrecking machine in their SB run. Should have been SB MVP.
Scam played at 6'5 300lbs and has done 2 things in all his PO games, Jack & Shyt

AD did more in his SB run than Scam has done in all his PO games combined. EFF Scam!!! Watt is getting really close to Scam territory. Highest paid Non-QB in NFL history. Time to get it done. Tired of excuses.

[Steelafan77]

Heyward back at practice participating in the padded portion of team drills that was closed to media.

https://x.com/bepryor/status/1957889573218054234

[CKSteeler]

I understand your points - but for me, almost all responsibility for poor defensive performance, post Lebeau, falls upon the dunce


That and the fact that they play in passing sub packages 75%+ now

That 2 down linemen configuration has been a problem against the run since Cowher installed the 3-4, and it’s only gotten worse as the team puts smaller more pass coverage capable ILBs on the field

Hell, they let their best run defender walk this past off season

You asked what Aaron Smith's big plays were. I can remember one that many don't. Steelers were up 14-0 and the Colts had a drive going before the half in that divisional playoff game. They were at the goal line and gave the ball to Edgerrin James on an outside zone and Aaron Smith took him down singlehandedly and killed the drive forcing a FG while fighting through a double team. That shows up in the box score, but not as something majorly impressive. But I'll always remember it. A play that was undervalued even then which would prove majorly important by the end.

Casey Hampton (a NT, same concept to me as to what you're arguing) came up with a big sack in the Super Bowl.

Brett Keisel produced two sacks against the Broncos in the AFCCG, but yea it was part of an overall dominant defensive effort.

It's troubling that Cam is an All-Pro talent and leader and the most memorable moments of his career were defensive collapses when it mattered most.

Yea, he's been set up to fail with we-do-what-we-do coaching. Coaching that he's endorsed his entire career. But the guy has been mostly invisible in brutally bad defensive performances.

[Steeldrama]

It pains me that it DOESN'T pain me seeing Suwanee GA's own Cam Heyward getting bashed for his stupid hold in.

Tomlin's failures have sank my level of give a rip to an all-time low.

I briefly met Cam when he was home from college helping one of my neighbors put up a new basketball hoop. HUGE human and by all accounts a really nice fella.

Mostly because of this brief encounter, I championed his draft selection in the draft chat room (much to the angst of my guy B2B who didn't get his man).

LOVED that pick by my then beloved Steelers

Now?

I'm just sitting at my desk wrapping my head around my day, but man I can't begin to understand where Cam has the AUDACITY, the UNMITIGATED GALL to demand more money based on his accolades for the REGULAR SEASON.

Players play

Coaches coach

The reality of it is BOTH parties are at fault for the Steelers now beyond embarrassing playoff string of losses under Mikey.

Bruce Smith is probably the best edge player I've ever seen not named Lawrence Taylor.

He and the rest of his Bills mates hold the distinction of being the only team to lose 4 straight Super Bowls (sorry Buffalo Jill).

Those last 3 losses were blowouts that would make Mike Tomlin blush.

Do those awful losses diminish Bruce Smith's career?

The answer is YES

Because while he's a regular season BEAST, he (and the rest of the stars on that team) failed when it mattered most.

Back to Suwanee GA's own Cam Heyward.

He can't even win ONE playoff game LET ALONE a hard fought, nail biter, close loss playoff game LET ALONE guide his team to 4 straight Super Bowl losses.

More money???

Fuck you dude.

The vitriol is sooooo well deserved.

[PennyBacker]

The DE in the Steelers defensive scheme is always been gap control

That Cam has been able to put up the sack numbers he has while also being by far their strongest run defender is a pretty extraordinary accomplishment

Add to it that 75% of the time he’s forced to do this with just two down lineman. Himself, and all too frequently, just another guy.

There's been a lot of games where Heyward + JAG defensive lineman wasn't the answer for stopping opponents from running the ball at pivotal points.

What's perplexing though is that somehow this type of issue doesn't seem to plague other teams nearly as much. And they don't have a Cameron Heyward as one of the down lineman.

That and the fact that they play in passing sub packages 75%+ now

That 2 down linemen configuration has been a problem against the run since Cowher installed the 3-4, and it’s only gotten worse as the team puts smaller more pass coverage capable ILBs on the field

Hell, they let their best run defender walk this past off season

With the addition of the two 300lb+ players from the recent draft, Queen's second year in Pittsburgh, Peyton Wilson's second year as a pro and Cole Holcomb's return, ideally the Steelers become one of the toughest teams to matchup against and restore their glory as an elite run defense.

[anpsteel]

I understand your points - but for me, almost all responsibility for poor defensive performance, post Lebeau, falls upon the dunce


That and the fact that they play in passing sub packages 75%+ now

That 2 down linemen configuration has been a problem against the run since Cowher installed the 3-4, and it’s only gotten worse as the team puts smaller more pass coverage capable ILBs on the field

Hell, they let their best run defender walk this past off season

You asked what Aaron Smith's big plays were. I can remember one that many don't. Steelers were up 14-0 and the Colts had a drive going before the half in that divisional playoff game. They were at the goal line and gave the ball to Edgerrin James on an outside zone and Aaron Smith took him down singlehandedly and killed the drive forcing a FG while fighting through a double team. That shows up in the box score, but not as something majorly impressive. But I'll always remember it. A play that was undervalued even then which would prove majorly important by the end.

Casey Hampton (a NT, same concept to me as to what you're arguing) came up with a big sack in the Super Bowl.

Brett Keisel produced two sacks against the Broncos in the AFCCG, but yea it was part of an overall dominant defensive effort.

It's troubling that Cam is an All-Pro talent and leader and the most memorable moments of his career were defensive collapses when it mattered most.

Yea, he's been set up to fail with we-do-what-we-do coaching. Coaching that he's endorsed his entire career. But the guy has been mostly invisible in brutally bad defensive performances.

fwiw, each of your examples Smith, Hampton, Keisel, were
A. Cowher was coaching
B. pre 2010/2015 when the league became pass happy
So the Defense was almost certainly aligned w/ 3 down linemen. (Clearly if Hampton was on the field, they were in base D)

to reiterate, the issue isn't the player

It's the way the player is used and the scheme.

I'm not taking anything away from Smith, Hampton, or Keisel. You could make an argument that Smith might be better than Cam, had he been allowed to rush the passer, and Hampton is a significantly under appreciated NT. (not by the Steelers fan base, but on a national level)

They were all excellent players in their own right, but in todays game Casey would be on the bench 75% of the game, and Smith and Keisel would be stuck in the same dilemma as Cam- responsible for occupying OLinemen so the LBs can get to the ball carrier.

[swissvale72]

I understand your points - but for me, almost all responsibility for poor defensive performance, post Lebeau, falls upon the dunce


That and the fact that they play in passing sub packages 75%+ now

That 2 down linemen configuration has been a problem against the run since Cowher installed the 3-4, and it’s only gotten worse as the team puts smaller more pass coverage capable ILBs on the field

Hell, they let their best run defender walk this past off season

You asked what Aaron Smith's big plays were. I can remember one that many don't. Steelers were up 14-0 and the Colts had a drive going before the half in that divisional playoff game. They were at the goal line and gave the ball to Edgerrin James on an outside zone and Aaron Smith took him down singlehandedly and killed the drive forcing a FG while fighting through a double team. That shows up in the box score, but not as something majorly impressive. But I'll always remember it. A play that was undervalued even then which would prove majorly important by the end.

Casey Hampton (a NT, same concept to me as to what you're arguing) came up with a big sack in the Super Bowl.

Brett Keisel produced two sacks against the Broncos in the AFCCG, but yea it was part of an overall dominant defensive effort.

It's troubling that Cam is an All-Pro talent and leader and the most memorable moments of his career were defensive collapses when it mattered most.

Yea, he's been set up to fail with we-do-what-we-do coaching. Coaching that he's endorsed his entire career. But the guy has been mostly invisible in brutally bad defensive performances.

fwiw, each of your examples Smith, Hampton, Keisel, were
A. Cowher was coaching
B. pre 2010/2015 when the league became pass happy
So the Defense was almost certainly aligned w/ 3 down linemen. (Clearly if Hampton was on the field, they were in base D)

to reiterate, the issue isn't the player

It's the way the player is used and the scheme.

I'm not taking anything away from Smith, Hampton, or Keisel. You could make an argument that Smith might be better than Cam, had he been allowed to rush the passer, and Hampton is a significantly under appreciated NT. (not by the Steelers fan base, but on a national level)

They were all excellent players in their own right, but in todays game Casey would be on the bench 75% of the game, and Smith and Keisel would be stuck in the same dilemma as Cam- responsible for occupying OLinemen so the LBs can get to the ball carrier.

All three of those guys were fuckin tremendous!! I well remember that play as well, CK. I also remember being pissed that rookie Aaron Smith, a 4th round draft pick, held out his rookie year...but sure proved his worth. Fat Casey was one of my faves, the SB sack that CK mentioned and there was a series against the Patriots earlier that season on which I wish I could recall the details. I think Casey might have gotten flagged for holding or something, got pissed, then sacked Matt Casell and was super fuckin demonstrative. Of course, that was the game where Ryan Clark layed Wes Welker the fuck OUT !!! Memories

[anpsteel]

You asked what Aaron Smith's big plays were. I can remember one that many don't. Steelers were up 14-0 and the Colts had a drive going before the half in that divisional playoff game. They were at the goal line and gave the ball to Edgerrin James on an outside zone and Aaron Smith took him down singlehandedly and killed the drive forcing a FG while fighting through a double team. That shows up in the box score, but not as something majorly impressive. But I'll always remember it. A play that was undervalued even then which would prove majorly important by the end.

Casey Hampton (a NT, same concept to me as to what you're arguing) came up with a big sack in the Super Bowl.

Brett Keisel produced two sacks against the Broncos in the AFCCG, but yea it was part of an overall dominant defensive effort.

It's troubling that Cam is an All-Pro talent and leader and the most memorable moments of his career were defensive collapses when it mattered most.

Yea, he's been set up to fail with we-do-what-we-do coaching. Coaching that he's endorsed his entire career. But the guy has been mostly invisible in brutally bad defensive performances.

fwiw, each of your examples Smith, Hampton, Keisel, were
A. Cowher was coaching
B. pre 2010/2015 when the league became pass happy
So the Defense was almost certainly aligned w/ 3 down linemen. (Clearly if Hampton was on the field, they were in base D)

to reiterate, the issue isn't the player

It's the way the player is used and the scheme.

I'm not taking anything away from Smith, Hampton, or Keisel. You could make an argument that Smith might be better than Cam, had he been allowed to rush the passer, and Hampton is a significantly under appreciated NT. (not by the Steelers fan base, but on a national level)

They were all excellent players in their own right, but in todays game Casey would be on the bench 75% of the game, and Smith and Keisel would be stuck in the same dilemma as Cam- responsible for occupying OLinemen so the LBs can get to the ball carrier.

All three of those guys were fuckin tremendous!! I well remember that play as well, CK. I also remember being pissed that rookie Aaron Smith, a 4th round draft pick, held out his rookie year...but sure proved his worth. Fat Casey was one of my faves, the SB sack that CK mentioned and there was a series against the Patriots earlier that season on which I wish I could recall the details. I think Casey might have gotten flagged for holding or something, got pissed, then sacked Matt Casell and was super fuckin demonstrative. Of course, that was the game where Ryan Clark layed Wes Welker the fuck OUT !!! Memories

My favorite Casey Hampton play- was when he split the double team, against the Titans, and demolished Eddie George 2 yards behind the LOS.

For such a big dude, he sure moved on that play.

iirc, Eddie George left the game after that hit

[W&M_Steeler]

fwiw, each of your examples Smith, Hampton, Keisel, were
A. Cowher was coaching
B. pre 2010/2015 when the league became pass happy
So the Defense was almost certainly aligned w/ 3 down linemen. (Clearly if Hampton was on the field, they were in base D)

to reiterate, the issue isn't the player

It's the way the player is used and the scheme.

I'm not taking anything away from Smith, Hampton, or Keisel. You could make an argument that Smith might be better than Cam, had he been allowed to rush the passer, and Hampton is a significantly under appreciated NT. (not by the Steelers fan base, but on a national level)

They were all excellent players in their own right, but in todays game Casey would be on the bench 75% of the game, and Smith and Keisel would be stuck in the same dilemma as Cam- responsible for occupying OLinemen so the LBs can get to the ball carrier.

All three of those guys were fuckin tremendous!! I well remember that play as well, CK. I also remember being pissed that rookie Aaron Smith, a 4th round draft pick, held out his rookie year...but sure proved his worth. Fat Casey was one of my faves, the SB sack that CK mentioned and there was a series against the Patriots earlier that season on which I wish I could recall the details. I think Casey might have gotten flagged for holding or something, got pissed, then sacked Matt Casell and was super fuckin demonstrative. Of course, that was the game where Ryan Clark layed Wes Welker the fuck OUT !!! Memories

My favorite Casey Hampton play- was when he split the double team, against the Titans, and demolished Eddie George 2 yards behind the LOS.

For such a big dude, he sure moved on that play.

iirc, Eddie George left the game after that hit

That's the play where Hampton knocked George unconscious and he fumbled, right? That's my favorite Hampton play too

[Ice]

Based on how well he played the 5 tech 34 DE, rules as written, Aaron Smith should be in the Hall of Fame.

[anpsteel]

All three of those guys were fuckin tremendous!! I well remember that play as well, CK. I also remember being pissed that rookie Aaron Smith, a 4th round draft pick, held out his rookie year...but sure proved his worth. Fat Casey was one of my faves, the SB sack that CK mentioned and there was a series against the Patriots earlier that season on which I wish I could recall the details. I think Casey might have gotten flagged for holding or something, got pissed, then sacked Matt Casell and was super fuckin demonstrative. Of course, that was the game where Ryan Clark layed Wes Welker the fuck OUT !!! Memories

My favorite Casey Hampton play- was when he split the double team, against the Titans, and demolished Eddie George 2 yards behind the LOS.

For such a big dude, he sure moved on that play.

iirc, Eddie George left the game after that hit

That's the play where Hampton knocked George unconscious and he fumbled, right? That's my favorite Hampton play too

That's it

That play was so over the top for Casey Hampton, I always figured Eddie must have said or done something to really piss Hamp off.

[anpsteel]

Based on how well he played the 5 tech 34 DE, rules as written, Aaron Smith should be in the Hall of Fame.

Not an unreasonable take


It takes a special personality to play DLine in the Steelers scheme, knowing you are in many ways, a place holder.

It's certainly better today than 10-15 years ago, but Aaron Donald wouldn't have put up nearly the numbers he did, in this system.

That's not a crack at Aaron Donald.

[AirRescueFF]

https://x.com/Steelersdepot/status/1957 ... nuClw&s=19


Maybe just me, but just seems like backpedaling.

[Ice]

Based on how well he played the 5 tech 34 DE, rules as written, Aaron Smith should be in the Hall of Fame.

Not an unreasonable take


It takes a special personality to play DLine in the Steelers scheme, knowing you are in many ways, a place holder.

It's certainly better today than 10-15 years ago, but Aaron Donald wouldn't have put up nearly the numbers he did, in this system.

That's not a crack at Aaron Donald.

Worth noting that, in his draft year, the Steelers worked Donald out at EDGE not DT. We're really not ones to build scheme around talent here.

[Steeldrama]

Worth noting that, in his draft year, the Steelers worked Donald out at EDGE not DT. We're really not ones to build scheme around talent here.

^
This

Despite my draft night angst when Colbert passed on should've been 3 time MVP Lamar Jackson for Terrell Freakin Edmunds (that REALLY happened), I sleep just fine knowing Lamar wouldn't be LAMAR had he been drafted by Mike Tomlin and your beloved Pittsburgh Steelers.

[CoolShades]

Worth noting that, in his draft year, the Steelers worked Donald out at EDGE not DT. We're really not ones to build scheme around talent here.

^
This

Despite my draft night angst when Colbert passed on should've been 3 time MVP Lamar Jackson for Terrell Freakin Edmunds (that REALLY happened), I sleep just fine knowing Lamar wouldn't be LAMAR had he been drafted by Mike Tomlin and your beloved Pittsburgh Steelers.

I remember reading that Tomlin claimed they were considering Brock Purdy when they took Chris Oladokun. Can you imagine?

Purdy would be selling insurance right now instead of pulling in $50M+ if he was drafted by the Steelers. He would have maybe made the practice squad before getting released and falling into football obscurity. Just another late round QB who never made it. Very quickly forgotten.

I like Purdy. He’s not Joe Burrow, but I don’t think we would ever have seen him play in the NFL if Jibbs took him instead of Oladokun.

[CoolShades]

CK pointed out the reasons Cam is obnoxious. Maybe in a vacuum you can come up with arguments for Cam getting paid. But I don't see him as some all-time Steelers great. He's the face of Tomlin ball and embodies what's wrong with it. He's an arrogant and self-important phony who cares more about personal accomplishments than winning. He plays well when there's no pressure but disappears when it counts. He's NHALS in human form.

This.

I wonder if Cam’s uniform number selection was his wink to the world of his acceptance of Tomlin’s NHALS mentality and season goal? (9-7)

Or did the Steeler equipment manager know what he was looking at when he issued the rookie his jersey number.... hmmmm. Good news for Cam, they extended the season to 17 games. Changing to 98 now would be too obvious.

[Gonzo]

Worth noting that, in his draft year, the Steelers worked Donald out at EDGE not DT. We're really not ones to build scheme around talent here.

^
This

Despite my draft night angst when Colbert passed on should've been 3 time MVP Lamar Jackson for Terrell Freakin Edmunds (that REALLY happened), I sleep just fine knowing Lamar wouldn't be LAMAR had he been drafted by Mike Tomlin and your beloved Pittsburgh Steelers.

I remember reading that Tomlin claimed they were considering Brock Purdy when they took Chris Oladokun. Can you imagine?

Purdy would be selling insurance right now instead of pulling in $50M+ if he was drafted by the Steelers. He would have maybe made the practice squad before getting released and falling into football obscurity. Just another late round QB who never made it. Very quickly forgotten.

I like Purdy. He’s not Joe Burrow, but I don’t think we would ever have seen him play in the NFL if Jibbs took him instead of Oladokun.

Cant blame guys when they jockey to be selected by, or traded to, certain teams ... especially when on their first contract because they need the stats to hit the Key second contract.

And above along with Dramas comments is the core problem.

Forget players, forget the owner -- the problem is the head coach and the approach. They run what they run and make talent fit the scheme regardless of the type of talent; they will not change that scheme -- ever ... not even for playoff matchups against high quality teams; and because the player must fit the scheme - developmental skills and/or creativity is not required for assistant coaches (in fact is it intentionally shunned). It is a system built from the top down with an intent to surrender upside to protect the head by removing risk, stopping any intellectual/scheme challenges and avoiding debate over "details" by labelling them irrelevant (execution is all that matters in a league of parity - and execution is best achieved by repetition of the Plan). In fewer words -- its avoiding hard work and criticism via bullshit

[anpsteel]

Worth noting that, in his draft year, the Steelers worked Donald out at EDGE not DT. We're really not ones to build scheme around talent here.

^
This

Despite my draft night angst when Colbert passed on should've been 3 time MVP Lamar Jackson for Terrell Freakin Edmunds (that REALLY happened), I sleep just fine knowing Lamar wouldn't be LAMAR had he been drafted by Mike Tomlin and your beloved Pittsburgh Steelers.

I remember reading that Tomlin claimed they were considering Brock Purdy when they took Chris Oladokun. Can you imagine?

Purdy would be selling insurance right now instead of pulling in $50M+ if he was drafted by the Steelers. He would have maybe made the practice squad before getting released and falling into football obscurity. Just another late round QB who never made it. Very quickly forgotten.

I like Purdy. He’s not Joe Burrow, but I don’t think we would ever have seen him play in the NFL if Jibbs took him instead of Oladokun.

So much this

There is no way Brock Purdy is making tens of millions of dollars a year if he was drafted by the Steelers