Payton Wilson = White Shazier?

[TimmayLake]

Anyone else see this comparison?

[jebrick]

As soon as he was drafted. Wilson has more experience playing as a MLB than Shazier did so the hopes of less than the 1.5 seasons to "get it". They played a similar game in college.

[daikyu]

Wilson seems to have the athletic ability to play a similar game. The injury history is the big concern that caused him to drop in the draft.

[DP39]

Similar, but Wilson isn't as strong (lower half especially) as Shazier was when drafted, imo. I think he's gonna need to hit the weight room a decent amount. I think he'll get there though. Coming out, I think Wilson's probably more advanced above the neck -- draft age of 24 to 21 could be the difference there.

[Pabst]

Similar, but Wilson isn't as strong (lower half especially) as Shazier was when drafted, imo.

I think that's a fact, not an opinion:

Shazier: 4.38 40, 42" vert, 130" broad
Wilson: 4.43 40, 35" vert, 119" broad

Wilson's numbers are great, but Shazier was an absolute freak athlete.

[K_C_]

Similar, but Wilson isn't as strong (lower half especially) as Shazier was when drafted, imo.

I think that's a fact, not an opinion:

Shazier: 4.38 40, 42" vert, 130" broad
Wilson: 4.43 40, 35" vert, 119" broad

Wilson's numbers are great, but Shazier was an absolute freak athlete.

A lot of young folks don't remember Gabe Rivera, but had that dude stayed healthy, not drafting Marino still would have looked bad, but Rivera had the makings of an absolute stud himself. I believe he was paralyzed after his rookie year and few people as large as Gabe were as quick and powerful as he was. Sad because both he and Shazier were absolute freak athletes, as you so eloquently put it.

Have to wonder how their careers end up if both don't end up getting horrifically injured.

[anpsteel]

Similar, but Wilson isn't as strong (lower half especially) as Shazier was when drafted, imo.

I think that's a fact, not an opinion:

Shazier: 4.38 40, 42" vert, 130" broad
Wilson: 4.43 40, 35" vert, 119" broad

Wilson's numbers are great, but Shazier was an absolute freak athlete.

A lot of young folks don't remember Gabe Rivera, but had that dude stayed healthy, not drafting Marino still would have looked bad, but Rivera had the makings of an absolute stud himself. I believe he was paralyzed after his rookie year and few people as large as Gabe were as quick and powerful as he was. Sad because both he and Shazier were absolute freak athletes, as you so eloquently put it.

Have to wonder how their careers end up if both don't end up getting horrifically injured.

I'm trying to remember what Myron Cope used to call Rivera ... and yes what a tragedy. He did a reverse Ben and went through his own windshield

[CoolShades]

I think that's a fact, not an opinion:

Shazier: 4.38 40, 42" vert, 130" broad
Wilson: 4.43 40, 35" vert, 119" broad

Wilson's numbers are great, but Shazier was an absolute freak athlete.

A lot of young folks don't remember Gabe Rivera, but had that dude stayed healthy, not drafting Marino still would have looked bad, but Rivera had the makings of an absolute stud himself. I believe he was paralyzed after his rookie year and few people as large as Gabe were as quick and powerful as he was. Sad because both he and Shazier were absolute freak athletes, as you so eloquently put it.

Have to wonder how their careers end up if both don't end up getting horrifically injured.

I'm trying to remember what Myron Cope used to call Rivera ... and yes what a tragedy. He did a reverse Ben and went through his own windshield

His nickname in college was “Señor Sack”. Not sure what Cope called him.

Edit: fixed Señor.

[anpsteel]

A lot of young folks don't remember Gabe Rivera, but had that dude stayed healthy, not drafting Marino still would have looked bad, but Rivera had the makings of an absolute stud himself. I believe he was paralyzed after his rookie year and few people as large as Gabe were as quick and powerful as he was. Sad because both he and Shazier were absolute freak athletes, as you so eloquently put it.

Have to wonder how their careers end up if both don't end up getting horrifically injured.

I'm trying to remember what Myron Cope used to call Rivera ... and yes what a tragedy. He did a reverse Ben and went through his own windshield

His nickname in college was “Senior Sack”. Not sure what Cope called him.

That was it. But I also remember something that poked fun of his huge upper body and skinny legs - that may not have been cope

Hard to believe that was 41 years ago

[daikyu]

That is why I said similar. Shazier was a notch below Polamalu in athleticism but he was in the same tier, a complete outlier.

Wilson has great measurables but not outlier measurables.

Similar, but Wilson isn't as strong (lower half especially) as Shazier was when drafted, imo.

I think that's a fact, not an opinion:

Shazier: 4.38 40, 42" vert, 130" broad
Wilson: 4.43 40, 35" vert, 119" broad

Wilson's numbers are great, but Shazier was an absolute freak athlete.

[Stosh-67]

I'm trying to remember what Myron Cope used to call Rivera ... and yes what a tragedy. He did a reverse Ben and went through his own windshield

His nickname in college was “Senior Sack”. Not sure what Cope called him.

That was it. But I also remember something that poked fun of his huge upper body and skinny legs - that may not have been cope

Hard to believe that was 41 years ago

I remember the big upper body and skinny legs.
Fast alright.
Wonder what his 40 was? If they did them back when. 4.7- 4.8ish?
DWI went thru the windshield of Datsun 280 zx if I recall.
No seat belt.

Died 2018 at 57.

[Stosh-67]

Despite his weight, Rivera was able to complete a 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds as a noseguard. While at Texas Tech, he earned the nickname "Señor Sack". Rivera finished his four-year career at Texas Tech with 321 tackles, 34 tackles for loss, 14 sacks, 11 pass deflections, and 6 fumble recoveries

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel ... recoveries.

[Stosh-67]

Really looking forward to seeing Payton run sideline to sideline and see how he sticks to TEs and RBs.

First 5 picks all look promising.
I would guess PH is the one wild card of these 5.

4-5 potential starters

McCormick could be starting next year.

[Pabst]

That is why I said similar. Shazier was a notch below Polamalu in athleticism but he was in the same tier, a complete outlier.

Wilson has great measurables but not outlier measurables.

Similar, but Wilson isn't as strong (lower half especially) as Shazier was when drafted, imo.

I think that's a fact, not an opinion:

Shazier: 4.38 40, 42" vert, 130" broad
Wilson: 4.43 40, 35" vert, 119" broad

Wilson's numbers are great, but Shazier was an absolute freak athlete.

Oh, totally hear you and it's a valid comparison. But Shazier was just on another level athletically. Another factor is that Shazier was only 21 when drafted....Wilson is much closer to a finished product.

[anpsteel]

His nickname in college was “Senior Sack”. Not sure what Cope called him.

That was it. But I also remember something that poked fun of his huge upper body and skinny legs - that may not have been cope

Hard to believe that was 41 years ago

I remember the big upper body and skinny legs.
Fast alright.
Wonder what his 40 was? If they did them back when. 4.7- 4.8ish?
DWI went thru the windshield of Datsun 280 zx if I recall.
No seat belt.

Died 2018 at 57.

I remember when the news came out. Aside from sadness over his injury and loss... I was mostly stunned that he could actually fit into a 280z. They are super tight, for a normal sized person. That's even if it was the 1+1 w/ the rear seat.

As far as the nickname regarding his body... I feel like it was something completely non-PC- so it wouldn't fly today. Something like mexican chicken or some such thing ... anyway

[Stosh-67]

actually...think he went thru the rear hatch back window.
Sad.
left practice that day, got drunk and into his car.

[Steelafan77]

I don’t care who he might ‘resemble’ as long as he plays well for at least his C1.

[Scunge]

I am not going to quibble that Shazier was a bit faster than Wilson, etc. they were both elite athletes in college.

Shazier, 39 games at Ohio St, 317 tackles, 45 for loss, 15 sacks, 1 INT, that he returned for a TD, 4 passes defensed, 5 Forced Fumbles.

Wilson, 47 games, 402 tackles, 48 for loss, 15 sacks, 7 INTs, he also had one returned for a TD, 13 passes defensed, 2 FF, 1 Fumble recovery.

Some players test well, but the tape shows that they are much slower on the field playing football with the pads on. Wilson and Shazier played just as fast and loose on the field. Wilson has crazy tape where he is moving so fast that everyone else looks to be frozen in time.

I am really excited for the season and the linebacker crew, as a whole, might be the best we have had since the days of Kirkland/Brown/Lloyd/Green and Harrison/Woodley/Farrior/Timmons. In fact this LB crew might end up being even better because look at the depth they have with Nick Herbig and Cole Holcomb.

[Steeldrama]

I am really excited for the season and the linebacker crew, as a whole, might be the best we have had since the days of Kirkland/Brown/Lloyd/Green and Harrison/Woodley/Farrior/Timmons. In fact this LB crew might end up being even better because look at the depth they have with Nick Herbig and Cole Holcomb.

I don't think the Steelers are counting on Cole Holcomb this year unless you've seen a positive update I missed.

I'm assuming that Payton Wilson is the primary ILB depth behind Roberts and Queen.

Still a very solid unit for YOUR Pittsburgh Steelers.

Wish they had more horses in front of them, but MAYBE Suwanee, GA's own Cam Heyward surprises the haters and has a bounce back season.

[bradshaw2ben]

I am really excited for the season and the linebacker crew, as a whole, might be the best we have had since the days of Kirkland/Brown/Lloyd/Green and Harrison/Woodley/Farrior/Timmons. In fact this LB crew might end up being even better because look at the depth they have with Nick Herbig and Cole Holcomb.

I don't think the Steelers are counting on Cole Holcomb this year unless you've seen a positive update I missed.

I'm assuming that Payton Wilson is the primary ILB depth behind Roberts and Queen.

Still a very solid unit for YOUR Pittsburgh Steelers.

Wish they had more horses in front of them, but MAYBE Suwanee, GA's own Cam Heyward surprises the haters and has a bounce back season.

I like the top 4 LBs they have (including Holcomb for now) but the issue I see is that, without Holcomb, they have three guys who play the same LB position and then Wilson who plays the other. I think MT is so in love with Queen that he seems him as the guy who never leaves the field and is gonna carry guys in coverage and so on. I'm pretty sure that's going to cost Wilson defensive snaps.

Queen and Wilson starting, with Roberts playing in short yardage or goal to go situations would be the best use of the resources (at least until Holcomb comes back), but I think they see LBs through a lens that's 20 years old.

[jebrick]

I am not going to quibble that Shazier was a bit faster than Wilson, etc. they were both elite athletes in college.

Shazier, 39 games at Ohio St, 317 tackles, 45 for loss, 15 sacks, 1 INT, that he returned for a TD, 4 passes defensed, 5 Forced Fumbles.

Wilson, 47 games, 402 tackles, 48 for loss, 15 sacks, 7 INTs, he also had one returned for a TD, 13 passes defensed, 2 FF, 1 Fumble recovery.

Some players test well, but the tape shows that they are much slower on the field playing football with the pads on. Wilson and Shazier played just as fast and loose on the field. Wilson has crazy tape where he is moving so fast that everyone else looks to be frozen in time.

I am really excited for the season and the linebacker crew, as a whole, might be the best we have had since the days of Kirkland/Brown/Lloyd/Green and Harrison/Woodley/Farrior/Timmons. In fact this LB crew might end up being even better because look at the depth they have with Nick Herbig and Cole Holcomb.

^^This^^ is why I said he is as close to Shazier as we are going to see. TFL for the off-the-ball LBs is a huge stat. Shazier had it. Bush did not. Last year I was hot for Ivan Pace Jr for the Steelers because he was a leader in TFL in college. Went undrafted and is a star for the Vikings.

I was afraid they would draft Coulson from Michigan. That guy is Bush 2.0. P. Wilson is exactly what they need. i hope he stays healthy and has a long HOF career with the Steelers.

[bradshaw2ben]

I am not going to quibble that Shazier was a bit faster than Wilson, etc. they were both elite athletes in college.

Shazier, 39 games at Ohio St, 317 tackles, 45 for loss, 15 sacks, 1 INT, that he returned for a TD, 4 passes defensed, 5 Forced Fumbles.

Wilson, 47 games, 402 tackles, 48 for loss, 15 sacks, 7 INTs, he also had one returned for a TD, 13 passes defensed, 2 FF, 1 Fumble recovery.

Some players test well, but the tape shows that they are much slower on the field playing football with the pads on. Wilson and Shazier played just as fast and loose on the field. Wilson has crazy tape where he is moving so fast that everyone else looks to be frozen in time.

I am really excited for the season and the linebacker crew, as a whole, might be the best we have had since the days of Kirkland/Brown/Lloyd/Green and Harrison/Woodley/Farrior/Timmons. In fact this LB crew might end up being even better because look at the depth they have with Nick Herbig and Cole Holcomb.

^^This^^ is why I said he is as close to Shazier as we are going to see. TFL for the off-the-ball LBs is a huge stat. Shazier had it. Bush did not. Last year I was hot for Ivan Pace Jr for the Steelers because he was a leader in TFL in college. Went undrafted and is a star for the Vikings.

I was afraid they would draft Coulson from Michigan. That guy is Bush 2.0. P. Wilson is exactly what they need. i hope he stays healthy and has a long HOF career with the Steelers.

If they use him right, he could be great. I fear they will not, based on how they view LB play.

[langer]

I think Holcomb is done. That injury was real bad.

https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/pittsburgh ... fl-rumors/

[Rod & Wire Mill]

Really looking forward to seeing Payton run sideline to sideline and see how he sticks to TEs and RBs.

First 5 picks all look promising.
I would guess PH is the one wild card of these 5.

4-5 potential starters

McCormick could be starting next year.

The way he roams sideline to sideline and attacks the ball, he reminds of Devin Bush not doing that.

[Rod & Wire Mill]

I think Holcomb is done. That injury was real bad.

https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/pittsburgh ... fl-rumors/

My opinion: Severe knee injury including acl takes at least two years to recover nfl functionality

[jebrick]

I am not going to quibble that Shazier was a bit faster than Wilson, etc. they were both elite athletes in college.

Shazier, 39 games at Ohio St, 317 tackles, 45 for loss, 15 sacks, 1 INT, that he returned for a TD, 4 passes defensed, 5 Forced Fumbles.

Wilson, 47 games, 402 tackles, 48 for loss, 15 sacks, 7 INTs, he also had one returned for a TD, 13 passes defensed, 2 FF, 1 Fumble recovery.

Some players test well, but the tape shows that they are much slower on the field playing football with the pads on. Wilson and Shazier played just as fast and loose on the field. Wilson has crazy tape where he is moving so fast that everyone else looks to be frozen in time.

I am really excited for the season and the linebacker crew, as a whole, might be the best we have had since the days of Kirkland/Brown/Lloyd/Green and Harrison/Woodley/Farrior/Timmons. In fact this LB crew might end up being even better because look at the depth they have with Nick Herbig and Cole Holcomb.

^^This^^ is why I said he is as close to Shazier as we are going to see. TFL for the off-the-ball LBs is a huge stat. Shazier had it. Bush did not. Last year I was hot for Ivan Pace Jr for the Steelers because he was a leader in TFL in college. Went undrafted and is a star for the Vikings.

I was afraid they would draft Coulson from Michigan. That guy is Bush 2.0. P. Wilson is exactly what they need. i hope he stays healthy and has a long HOF career with the Steelers.

If they use him right, he could be great. I fear they will not, based on how they view LB play.

They have not had a "Shazier" replacement so they might. Bush was the anti-Shazier as it were.

[bradshaw2ben]

^^This^^ is why I said he is as close to Shazier as we are going to see. TFL for the off-the-ball LBs is a huge stat. Shazier had it. Bush did not. Last year I was hot for Ivan Pace Jr for the Steelers because he was a leader in TFL in college. Went undrafted and is a star for the Vikings.

I was afraid they would draft Coulson from Michigan. That guy is Bush 2.0. P. Wilson is exactly what they need. i hope he stays healthy and has a long HOF career with the Steelers.

If they use him right, he could be great. I fear they will not, based on how they view LB play.

They have not had a "Shazier" replacement so they might. Bush was the anti-Shazier as it were.

If they hadn't signed Patrick Queen to a big contract, I'd feel better about Wilson's chances. If they didn't see Queen as a coverage backer, I would feel better about Wilson's chances. But both of those things are true, so as long as Queen is here and healthy it's going to be an obstacle for Wilson's career.

[SteelerDayTrader]

I think the Steelers 3-4 needs to be 2 deep at BOTH ILB spots with high quality starter talent


Injuries are just too prevalent and we’ve all seen what happens when we don’t have top talent at ILB

Queen is signed through 26 and will be 27

Wilson is signed through 27 and will be 27

Roberts is signed through 24 and will be 30

I suspect we will see plenty of all 3 and I suspect the Steelers view those 3 as at least capable at both spots

[bradshaw2ben]

Queen has the kind of cover skills that would be great if he’s covering RBs in the flat and below average dropping in MOF or manning up on a TE or big slot. So, if you play him at the position that usually uses your lesser coverage LB, then his level of play is pretty impressive. Roberts rallied temporarily down the stretch last year but he’s not a coverage guy by nature. Holcomb is a little better in coverage than Queen, but he’s also a guy that you’d love to be your 2nd best coverage LB on the field. Wilson has potential to be a plus coverage guy. Would love to see that but o seriously doubt it will happen as long as they have to justify Queens’ contract.

[SteelerDayTrader]

Queen has the kind of cover skills that would be great if he’s covering RBs in the flat and below average dropping in MOF or manning up on a TE or big slot. So, if you play him at the position that usually uses your lesser coverage LB, then his level of play is pretty impressive. Roberts rallied temporarily down the stretch last year but he’s not a coverage guy by nature. Holcomb is a little better in coverage than Queen, but he’s also a guy that you’d love to be your 2nd best coverage LB on the field. Wilson has potential to be a plus coverage guy. Would love to see that but o seriously doubt it will happen as long as they have to justify Queens’ contract.

I agree with all of that B2B


I’m just not sure the Steelers will play it that way.

Particularly when injuries start adding to the mix


If Holcomb doesn’t make it back….. Roberts Queen and Wilson…..isn’t a bad group.

If Holcomb comes back close to or as good as before …..I think that’s potentially one helluva a ILB group


I’m not gonna sweat it if Wilson isn’t an immediate starter.


If there is anyone who could really benefit from some weight/strength/conditioning at an NFL level while at the same time not being overly exposed to injury issues…..

It’s him