SteelerFury Combined Forum

Don’t know who the guy is that made the video, but I thought it was interesting. I especially thought the “heat maps”, showing where Wilson’s throws went the last two seasons were eye opening. Most outside the numbers. He rarely threw over the middle, which does not excite me much. Looks a lot like a Canada offense. The reason given? He can’t see over the offensive line. His stat line looks decent on the surface, but a deeper look shows problems. He threw for over 300 yards only twice last season, (308 against Washington and 306 against the Dolphins when they hung 70 on the Broncos, so that doesn’t really count.)

Russell Wilson can (still) only run one offense
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A9OAbuTtJ ... aWxzb24%3D

I also thought this was worth a watch if you are not familiar with why Wilson was jettisoned from Seattle and also disliked so much in Denver.

This is why the NFL can’t stand Russell Wilson

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6NA9JddKW ... aWxzb24%3D

Enjoy

Yikes.

Nothing new. He’s too short (5’11”) to be a legit pocket passer. His most effective years were when he could evade the rush and create new throwing lanes on the fly.

He was getting killed in DEN and sacked at an incredible rate. I don’t expect much but it will be far more interesting than last season. He still throws a great ball with plenty of zip so if Smith can find something on that side of the ball we can win and at least get to January.

Drew Brees was an inch taller than Russell Wilson. If the height was some crippling reason he can't throw to the middle of the field, then why not for Brees?

For the first 10+ years of his career, Ben racked up big yards and TDs attacking zone defenses over the middle. Then 6 or 7 years ago, that started drying up and by 2017/2018ish, we were complaining about the “U-shaped offense” that never threw to the middle of the field.

What happened? Did Ben get shorter? Did he forget how to read defenses? Did his loss of arm strength limit him…to only throwing arm-demanding sideline routes?

Those explanations seem really improbable to me. My unproven conjecture is that smart defenses started using analytics to adapt zones to shut down stale passing schemes, and we’ve just been living that way for six or so years now. But i dont think this issue is all or even mostly a QB effect.

Pittsburgh——-The City of Steel has become the City of the Perpetual Five-Year Rebuild!

So far, the Steelers haven't really managed the post-Ben era all that well.

I'm still wondering why Kenny Touchdown-Football was ever drafted much less No 1.

He bombed out about as bad as a QB could ever bomb out.

Well, Ryan Leaf was much worse.

CKSteeler wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:21 pm

Drew Brees was an inch taller than Russell Wilson. If the height was some crippling reason he can't throw to the middle of the field, then why not for Brees?

Because Wilson isn’t Drew Brees? Also an inch can mean something back there. Ask my wife.

CKSteeler wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:21 pm

Drew Brees was an inch taller than Russell Wilson. If the height was some crippling reason he can't throw to the middle of the field, then why not for Brees?

Believe it or not, Brees also worked on a specific talent of releasing the ball (especially when throwing over the middle) off the tips of his toes to give him a few inches more when looking over his line (probably made him closer to 6' 2" or so). I watched a video of him talking about/doing it. Dude worked his ass off, always looking to improve/gain an advantage. One of my favorite QBs.

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 2:18 pm

CKSteeler wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:21 pm

Drew Brees was an inch taller than Russell Wilson. If the height was some crippling reason he can't throw to the middle of the field, then why not for Brees?

Because Wilson isn’t Drew Brees? Also an inch can mean something back there. Ask my wife.

As someone who has watched his favorite NFL team eschew the middle of the field with one of the largest QB's in the league, the whole Wilson-is-too-short narrative stinks of bro science.

CKSteeler wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 6:46 pm

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 2:18 pm

CKSteeler wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:21 pm

Drew Brees was an inch taller than Russell Wilson. If the height was some crippling reason he can't throw to the middle of the field, then why not for Brees?

Because Wilson isn’t Drew Brees? Also an inch can mean something back there. Ask my wife.

As someone who has watched his favorite NFL team eschew the middle of the field with one of the largest QB's in the league, the whole Wilson-is-too-short narrative stinks of bro science.

OK. Just wait. It’s going to drive you crazy.

DP39 wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 5:16 pm

CKSteeler wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:21 pm

Drew Brees was an inch taller than Russell Wilson. If the height was some crippling reason he can't throw to the middle of the field, then why not for Brees?

Believe it or not, Brees also worked on a specific talent of releasing the ball (especially when throwing over the middle) off the tips of his toes to give him a few inches more when looking over his line (probably made him closer to 6' 2" or so). I watched a video of him talking about/doing it. Dude worked his ass off, always looking to improve/gain an advantage. One of my favorite QBs.

One of the great "what-if's" in NFL history is what would have become of Drew Brees if Philip Rivers didn't hold out and miss training camp as a rookie.

Brees was so bad in his 3rd season that he got benched for Doug Flutie.

So wait, Ben Roethlisberger and every other premier NFL QB didn't have outsized influence and preferential treatment with the organization?

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 6:54 pm

CKSteeler wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 6:46 pm

Orangesteel wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 2:18 pm

Because Wilson isn’t Drew Brees? Also an inch can mean something back there. Ask my wife.

As someone who has watched his favorite NFL team eschew the middle of the field with one of the largest QB's in the league, the whole Wilson-is-too-short narrative stinks of bro science.

OK. Just wait. It’s going to drive you crazy.

I'm already well aware that Wilson avoids the middle of the field. I simply question the reason given here as to why.

Mick wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:57 pm

For the first 10+ years of his career, Ben racked up big yards and TDs attacking zone defenses over the middle. Then 6 or 7 years ago, that started drying up and by 2017/2018ish, we were complaining about the “U-shaped offense” that never threw to the middle of the field.

What happened? Did Ben get shorter? Did he forget how to read defenses? Did his loss of arm strength limit him…to only throwing arm-demanding sideline routes?

Those explanations seem really improbable to me. My unproven conjecture is that smart defenses started using analytics to adapt zones to shut down stale passing schemes, and we’ve just been living that way for six or so years now. But i dont think this issue is all or even mostly a QB effect.

Gold star poast

Of bigger concern is that, rather than self-scout and realize his Neanderthal offensive mentality was the problem, he doubled down by hiring an OC with the same mindset (only even more ingrained), and then tripled down with a QB who property much only throws outside the numbers, go balls vs single coverage, and PA deep shots.

Mick wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:57 pm

For the first 10+ years of his career, Ben racked up big yards and TDs attacking zone defenses over the middle. Then 6 or 7 years ago, that started drying up and by 2017/2018ish, we were complaining about the “U-shaped offense” that never threw to the middle of the field.

What happened? Did Ben get shorter? Did he forget how to read defenses? Did his loss of arm strength limit him…to only throwing arm-demanding sideline routes?

Those explanations seem really improbable to me. My unproven conjecture is that smart defenses started using analytics to adapt zones to shut down stale passing schemes, and we’ve just been living that way for six or so years now. But i dont think this issue is all or even mostly a QB effect.

I think that had a lot more to do with Antonio Brown leaving. Ben threw for over 5000 yards in 2018. It’s been downhill since Brown left. The offense never replaced him and never adjusted.

Mick wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:57 pm

For the first 10+ years of his career, Ben racked up big yards and TDs attacking zone defenses over the middle. Then 6 or 7 years ago, that started drying up and by 2017/2018ish, we were complaining about the “U-shaped offense” that never threw to the middle of the field.

What happened? Did Ben get shorter? Did he forget how to read defenses? Did his loss of arm strength limit him…to only throwing arm-demanding sideline routes?

Those explanations seem really improbable to me. My unproven conjecture is that smart defenses started using analytics to adapt zones to shut down stale passing schemes, and we’ve just been living that way for six or so years now. But i dont think this issue is all or even mostly a QB effect.

Have to imagine the league trying to keep up with Brady and always being a year behind had something to do with it too. Small ball; matriculating the ball via the short pass bolsters your conjecture as well.

bradshaw2ben wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 9:55 pm

Of bigger concern is that, rather than self-scout and realize his Neanderthal offensive mentality was the problem, he doubled down by hiring an OC with the same mindset (only even more ingrained), and then tripled down with a QB who property much only throws outside the numbers, go balls vs single coverage, and PA deep shots.

thats a bingo

O'Donnell's Bookie wrote: ↑

Sat May 18, 2024 7:37 pm

I miss scoring 30 PPG w/ a Haley led team.

When you consider how bad Haley was/is as a coach, that's a remarkable testament to the talent they had on the field.

CoolShades wrote: ↑

Wed May 15, 2024 10:52 pm

Mick wrote: ↑

Tue May 14, 2024 11:57 pm

For the first 10+ years of his career, Ben racked up big yards and TDs attacking zone defenses over the middle. Then 6 or 7 years ago, that started drying up and by 2017/2018ish, we were complaining about the “U-shaped offense” that never threw to the middle of the field.

What happened? Did Ben get shorter? Did he forget how to read defenses? Did his loss of arm strength limit him…to only throwing arm-demanding sideline routes?

Those explanations seem really improbable to me. My unproven conjecture is that smart defenses started using analytics to adapt zones to shut down stale passing schemes, and we’ve just been living that way for six or so years now. But i dont think this issue is all or even mostly a QB effect.

I think that had a lot more to do with Antonio Brown leaving. Ben threw for over 5000 yards in 2018. It’s been downhill since Brown left. The offense never replaced him and never adjusted.

Ben blew out his arm early 2019.

That's when it was over.

AB was spectacular in the regular season plus 1 PS helmet catch. He was more dominant between the 20s than the red zone though.

The board ROASTED Todd Haley during his second year here. That's when the talk started about not utilizing the middle of a field as much.

Under Tomlins conservative umbrella.

O'Donnell's Bookie wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2024 12:41 am

What's most hilarious about that is watching Steelers highlights from 16-17 or so...

We we're absolutely LIGHTING UP the middle of the field w/ AB yes, but also Coates, Wheaton, etc..

Haley was an offensive mastermind.

You are totally and laughs all crediting the wrong guy with the success for that offense. The Steelers had a top 3 OL and the best QB, WR, & RB in the game. They had Mike Munchak coaching the OL. A goddamn monkey could have gotten that out of them. What Haley couldn’t do to save his life was a scheme a play for situations, get his QB an open and easy look once in a while, or figure out how to get that same success when any of the three superstars were out of the game.

The u-shape offense was very much a thing under Haley, they just had dominant talent as stated.

The entire game against the Ravens in 2014, the playoff loss, the middle of the field was wide fucking open and the Steelers didn't dare throw into it.

He lost me with Sammie Coates and "lighting it up" in the same sentence.

Now, if you'd gone with Martavis, Leveon or Santonio...

bradshaw2ben wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2024 2:07 am

O'Donnell's Bookie wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2024 12:41 am

What's most hilarious about that is watching Steelers highlights from 16-17 or so...

We we're absolutely LIGHTING UP the middle of the field w/ AB yes, but also Coates, Wheaton, etc..

Haley was an offensive mastermind.

You are totally and laughs all crediting the wrong guy with the success for that offense. The Steelers had a top 3 OL and the best QB, WR, & RB in the game. They had Mike Munchak coaching the OL. A goddamn monkey could have gotten that out of them. What Haley couldn’t do to save his life was a scheme a play for situations, get his QB an open and easy look once in a while, or figure out how to get that same success when any of the three superstars were out of the game.

The 2016 team was 10th in scoring, 2017 was 8th. That's not great considering the talent available. I've said this a million times, those "Killer B" teams vastly underperformed on offense.