Keith Butler

Legacy User · Post by **Legacy User** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:07 am

I know most want to wipe the entire slate clean but I am going out on a limb and saying Kieth is playing for his job these next 4 or so games.

Defense started getting gashed from a third string RB. Just cant let that happen. Chargers were one dimensional until this.

Failed adjustment with Allen.

Really needed that stop on that final drive at home for playoff position and the D gaffed.

Yes..you could blame it on the HC or players but it will be Butler.

Loved to be called out on this and proven wrong but too many times the D has come up short when needing the stops.

There are like a half dozen 1st through 3rd rounders on that defense.

Thoughts?

tbsteel · Post by **tbsteel** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:16 am

Chargers average 28 points a game. They scored 26 tonight. 7 of which came on a blatant false start, and 7 more that came on a ridiculously unlucky play. Just some perspective.

D did some good things but they were emotionally spent. Tomlin's boys can't bring it 60 full minutes. They blew their load and had nothing left when the game was on the line. It has happened multiple times this year.

If the last three weeks tell us anything, it's that this team simply isn't executing at a winning, championship level. So many awful turnovers, big plays that could've been made that were missed, self-inflicted wounds. We've got an offense that consistently leaves plays on the field and turns it over, and a defense that lacks playmakers and can't force turnovers. It's not a formula for success.

Orangesteel · Post by **Orangesteel** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:18 am

TB wrote:Chargers average 28 points a game. They scored 26 tonight. 7 of which came on a blatant false start, and 7 more that came on a ridiculously unlucky play. Just some perspective.

D did some good things but they were emotionally spent. Tomlin's boys can't bring it 60 full minutes. They blew their load and had nothing left when the game was on the line. It has happened multiple times this year.

If the last three weeks tell us anything, it's that this team simply isn't executing at a winning, championship level. So many awful turnovers, big plays that could've been made that were missed, self-inflicted wounds. We've got an offense that consistently leaves plays on the field and turns it over, and a defense that lacks playmakers and can't force turnovers. It's not a formula for success.

Exactly. In other words, a typical Tomlin season. Make the playoffs and don’t do a fucking thing.

Tomlin has never stressed cleaning this shit up; why would he start now.

tbsteel · Post by **tbsteel** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:23 am

...but covering Keenan Allen with Jon Bostic, taking Fort off the field and putting Bostic on Keenan f'n Allen, on that late third down is borderline criminal.

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:28 am

Orangesteel wrote:Exactly. In other words, a typical Tomlin season.

I'm still steaming over that 1-2-1 start.

But the last 3 weeks, I have ZERO criticism of Tomlin. ZERO. He got fucked by the refs in one game, and Ben fucked a duck in the other.

If you want to talk about the team is overall sloppy/loose....well then ok. 7(?) ST penalties - a solid 4 before the end - and I think you need to send a message. I'd cut DHB tomorrow.

Legacy User · Post by **Legacy User** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:28 am

TB wrote:...but covering Keenan Allen with Jon Bostic, taking Fort off the field and putting Bostic on Keenan f'n Allen, on that late third down is borderline criminal.

Reminds me of when we laughed at the chiefs for putting Justin houston on AB when the steelers iced the playoff game.

Orangesteel · Post by **Orangesteel** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:33 am

Kodiak wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:Exactly. In other words, a typical Tomlin season.

I'm still steaming over that 1-2-1 start.

But the last 3 weeks, I have ZERO criticism of Tomlin. ZERO. He got fucked by the refs in one game, and Ben fucked a duck in the other.

If you want to talk about the team is overall sloppy/loose....well then ok. 7(?) ST penalties - a solid 4 before the end - and I think you need to send a message. I'd cut DHB tomorrow.

Hell yes they are sloppy and loose. It literally took the most busted ass play I’ve seen in years and Ben shoving Feiler out of the way for us to not be 0-3 in our last three.

Everyone banks on Tomlin having his troops ready to roll in December. Well we aren’t off to a good start.

Oh and yeah, FUCK TOMLIN if he can’t step in and tell Butler that covering Keenan Allen with (insert linebacker here) isn’t working well. Isn’t Tomlin a defensive minded coach? Well he sucks my dick at it.

Legacy User · Post by **Legacy User** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:47 am

It’s Keef Butler

Legacy User · Post by **Legacy User** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:50 am

I'm no NFL defensive mastermind, but I was wondering if the Steelers were in some kind of zone coverage, and it's the Chargers who kept forcing Allen to be covered by a LB. So why didn't they change personnel or scheme or something? Dunno, that's above my pay grade as a fan.

AirRescueFF · Post by **AirRescueFF** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:03 am

https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status ... 70112?s=20

Minkah'n History · Post by **Minkah'n History** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:11 pm

Orangesteel wrote:
TB wrote:Chargers average 28 points a game. They scored 26 tonight. 7 of which came on a blatant false start, and 7 more that came on a ridiculously unlucky play. Just some perspective.

D did some good things but they were emotionally spent. Tomlin's boys can't bring it 60 full minutes. They blew their load and had nothing left when the game was on the line. It has happened multiple times this year.

If the last three weeks tell us anything, it's that this team simply isn't executing at a winning, championship level. So many awful turnovers, big plays that could've been made that were missed, self-inflicted wounds. We've got an offense that consistently leaves plays on the field and turns it over, and a defense that lacks playmakers and can't force turnovers. It's not a formula for success.

Exactly. In other words, a typical Tomlin season. Make the playoffs and don’t do a fucking thing.

Tomlin has never stressed cleaning this shit up; why would he start now.

Easy now. We need to actually win a game. Who goes on multiple game losing streaks after 6 wins in a row? Pathetic.

Steelafan77 · Post by **Steelafan77** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Orangesteel wrote:
Exactly. In other words, a typical Tomlin season. Make the playoffs and don’t do a fucking thing.

Just good enough to ensure your employment...

stillcajun · Post by **stillcajun** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:12 pm

Butler is dumpster juice. Not even garbage. He doesn't know how to take advantage and exploit weaknesses of an O and he doesn't make adjustments. Even Rivers pointed the same out as well. This is just mind boggling sometimes.

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/12/rivers-chargers-exploit-steelers-rigidity-they-stick-with-what-they-do/

steelmann58 · Post by **steelmann58** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:29 pm

Butler needs to be replaced and it goes on tomlin for not overriding that BS

Orangesteel · Post by **Orangesteel** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:36 pm

Stillcajun wrote:Butler is dumpster juice. Not even garbage. He doesn't know how to take advantage and exploit weaknesses of an O and he doesn't make adjustments. Even Rivers pointed the same out as well. This is just mind boggling sometimes.

https://steelersdepot.com/2018/12/rivers-chargers-exploit-steelers-rigidity-they-stick-with-what-they-do/

Hahahaha. And people still have any confidence in Butler or Tomlin? That’s laughable. I said last night these are two of the dumbest coaches in the league.

Legacy User · Post by **Legacy User** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:11 pm

Miter Saw wrote:
TB wrote:...but covering Keenan Allen with Jon Bostic, taking Fort off the field and putting Bostic on Keenan f'n Allen, on that late third down is borderline criminal.

Reminds me of when we laughed at the chiefs for putting Justin houston on AB when the steelers iced the playoff game.

great recall MS

Legacy User · Post by **Legacy User** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:13 pm

The other thing on Butlers resume that to me is misleading are the Quality Sacks generated. The Steel may get 6 sacks against a cupcake and rack up nice stats but will be interesting how they do against Brees.

Brady is vulnerable this year on many levels so it would not shock me if there are many hurries/pressure/etc.

Legacy User · Post by **Legacy User** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:15 pm

TB wrote:Chargers average 28 points a game. They scored 26 tonight. 7 of which came on a blatant false start, and 7 more that came on a ridiculously unlucky play. Just some perspective.

D did some good things but they were emotionally spent. Tomlin's boys can't bring it 60 full minutes. They blew their load and had nothing left when the game was on the line. It has happened multiple times this year.

If the last three weeks tell us anything, it's that this team simply isn't executing at a winning, championship level. So many awful turnovers, big plays that could've been made that were missed, self-inflicted wounds. We've got an offense that consistently leaves plays on the field and turns it over, and a defense that lacks playmakers and can't force turnovers. It's not a formula for success.

Fair point .. last night there was some adrenaline and emotion but I still am going to stick with the 4 game audition to not be asked to retire.

Post by **bradshaw2ben** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:18 pm

Orangesteel wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
Orangesteel wrote:Exactly. In other words, a typical Tomlin season.

I'm still steaming over that 1-2-1 start.

But the last 3 weeks, I have ZERO criticism of Tomlin. ZERO. He got fucked by the refs in one game, and Ben fucked a duck in the other.

If you want to talk about the team is overall sloppy/loose....well then ok. 7(?) ST penalties - a solid 4 before the end - and I think you need to send a message. I'd cut DHB tomorrow.

Hell yes they are sloppy and loose. It literally took the most busted ass play I’ve seen in years and Ben shoving Feiler out of the way for us to not be 0-3 in our last three.

Everyone banks on Tomlin having his troops ready to roll in December. Well we aren’t off to a good start.

Oh and yeah, FUCK TOMLIN if he can’t step in and tell Butler that covering Keenan Allen with (insert linebacker here) isn’t working well. Isn’t Tomlin a defensive minded coach? Well he sucks my dick at it.

Once again, when covering Keenan Allen last night:
LBs vs 7/9 70... 7.8 YPT, 10 YPC
CBs vs 7-9 78, TD... 8.7 YPT, 11.1 YPC
IIRC, he also had a drop when facing a Safety

Orangesteel · Post by **Orangesteel** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:23 pm

So he was catching everything. So are you saying that nothing the Steelers could have done could have stopped Keenan Allen last night? We are just going to give Butler and Mike a pass here? You said it yourself in the other thread that the choice to go with BOSTIC was wrong.

Rivers sure liked his looks last night as the game progressed. He said it himself that the Steelers kinda just do what they do. I know Keenan Allen is good. I also know our defense is very very average and our coaching seems worse.

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:26 pm

Orangesteel wrote:... He said it himself that the Steelers kinda just do what they do. ...

We've been saying it for years, but that stings.

Basically, you just need to figure out the defense and then they won't change anything. Might explain why our defense has blown so many leads. They aren't getting tired in Q4, they're being figured out.

Hacksaw Jim Duggan · Post by **Hacksaw Jim Duggan** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:32 pm

Maybe it's the state of defense in this league, but I'm really tired of the Steelers lacking a defensive leader and big-time playmaker. Drafts have resulted in outright busts to good complementary players.

Post by **bradshaw2ben** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:41 pm

Orangesteel wrote:So he was catching everything. So are you saying that nothing the Steelers could have done could have stopped Keenan Allen last night? We are just going to give Butler and Mike a pass here? You said it yourself in the other thread that the choice to go with BOSTIC was wrong.

Rivers sure liked his looks last night as the game progressed. He said it himself that the Steelers kinda just do what they do. I know Keenan Allen is good. I also know our defense is very very average and our coaching seems worse.

I think the blitz call was worse. You can't do a blitz that also leaves Bostic without help there. I guess you can justify Bostic because there was a significant chance SD goes run there (I know I thought they'd run, to be certain to use all the clock)... but then you can't blitz a guy from his area and leave him on an island. To me, a better call is a run blitz of Bostic there, drop Watt and bring that safety hard downhill to tackle after the catch and short of the sticks. If you try to both account for the run possibility and play coverage and blitz, your options are pretty limited.

I guess I'm most against the blitz because you know Rivers is going to dump it short anyway. Better to show a heavy front and then drop everybody across the field, as if it's 3rd and goal from the 5.

jeemie · Post by **jeemie** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:00 pm

AirRescueFF wrote:https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/1069478160788570112?s=20

And Lynn’s still needed to be gifted touchdowns by the refs to win, so let’s not go sucking Lynn’s dick yet.

Havoc · Post by **Havoc** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:11 pm

TB wrote:Chargers average 28 points a game. They scored 26 tonight. 7 of which came on a blatant false start, and 7 more that came on a ridiculously unlucky play. Just some perspective.

D did some good things but they were emotionally spent. Tomlin's boys can't bring it 60 full minutes. They blew their load and had nothing left when the game was on the line. It has happened multiple times this year.

If the last three weeks tell us anything, it's that this team simply isn't executing at a winning, championship level. So many awful turnovers, big plays that could've been made that were missed, self-inflicted wounds. We've got an offense that consistently leaves plays on the field and turns it over, and a defense that lacks playmakers and can't force turnovers. It's not a formula for success.

The bolded is a problem. The offense has a chance to clean up their act, but is this defense with the current personnel ever going to be able to generate TOs?

Ola got snaps, maybe he can help. I also liked seeing Fort get more snaps, thought he gave us more turn and run speed in the middle of the D.

ToddHaleysNineIron · Post by **ToddHaleysNineIron** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:36 pm

Jeemie wrote:
AirRescueFF wrote:https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/1069478160788570112?s=20

And Lynn’s still needed to be gifted touchdowns by the refs to win, so let’s not go sucking Lynn’s dick yet.

Yeah, if you are given 14 pts in any game, you probably should win... I'm not going to crown he or the chargers in any form given the officiating. Put it this way - they aren't getting those non calls when facing a Robert Kraft team.

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:37 pm

Havoc wrote:...but is this defense with the current personnel ever going to be able to generate TOs?..

Tomlin/Butler are coaching like you can still play defense in today's NFL...It's all about turnovers now.

For all the criticism of Ben and the offense, if we had a top-10 defense in takeaways would we be 9-3 or 10-2 right now? I think so.

Gonzo · Post by **Gonzo** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:33 am

Kodiak wrote:
Havoc wrote:...but is this defense with the current personnel ever going to be able to generate TOs?..

Tomlin/Butler are coaching like you can still play defense in today's NFL...It's all about turnovers now.

For all the criticism of Ben and the offense, if we had a top-10 defense in takeaways would we be 9-3 or 10-2 right now? I think so.

Chicken dinner
This has been an issue for years
And I don't know why they feel it is a good idea

steelmann58 · Post by **steelmann58** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:51 am

yes and the FO failed to improve this defense when they knew after losing Shazier they had no Playmaker for this defense, but you are so correct when Ben leaves we all be going some pains.

Legacy User · Post by **Legacy User** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:08 am

Sadly in modern rules football...a defense that gives up 20-23 pts a game is I guess considered effective.

How about if you are the GM and you need to reevaluate. Again...I just dont see a lot of good stable alternatives as a head coach. See

the ls, Dolphins, Browns...as examples of a decent OC/DC , etc who shit the bed as a head coach. Besides Bellicheat..who else?

Going back to the DC...Butler to me will be the sacrificial lamb if these 4 games are not competitive on D.

I hate giving Bellicheat credit but he is a master in in game adjustments. I have seen him make an adjustment on the very next possesion by the defense.

Take it one step further...I remember Brady making an effn adjustment on an existing drive in the SB against the Falcons when they were reading his underneath coverage to Edelman in the SB.

Remember the drive by Dallas in Pittsburgh where Jarvis did not hold outside containment well on Zeke and Dallas scored in under 2 minutes? Another fail.

Keith Butler

Keith Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Kieth Butler

Re: Keith Butler

Re: Keith Butler