Conner vs Bell

[USS Steelerworks]

James Conner through 3 games this season:
54 carries / 213 yards / 3 TDs / 15 catches / 139 yards

LeVeon Bell through 3 games in the 2017 season:
52 carries / 180 yards / 1 TD / 13 catches / 56 yards

Granted game 4 of the 2017 season is when Bell’s stats really took off but I think it’s fair to say the team hasn’t missed their all pro running back so far in September.

[Legacy User]

James Conner through 3 games this season:
54 carries / 213 yards / 3 TDs / 15 catches / 139 yards

LeVeon Bell through 3 games in the 2017 season:
52 carries / 180 yards / 1 TD / 13 catches / 56 yards

Granted game 4 of the 2017 season is when Bell’s stats really took off but I think it’s fair to say the team hasn’t missed their all pro running back so far in September.

I completely disagree that they haven't missed Bell. Stats may tip in Conner's favor, but you can't tell me that a dynamic player like Bell couldn't have helped them in Cleveland and against the Chiefs. A play here or a play there could have made all the difference.

Conner is a fine RB and he's filling in admirably, but Bell is on another planet.

[Legacy User]

What were Bell's fumble stats through 3 games?

This is right around the time Bell whined about not getting the ball enough.....just so he could whine a few months later he gets the ball too much.

[LakecrestSteeler]

I don’t really believe Bell would have made much difference in Cleveland or KC. I think the TD stat might be the most telling. And Connor was pretty clutch last night. Connor is the cause for diversity on offensive touches. Offensive diversity makes for championship teams.

Why compare Connor to Bell last year? Shouldn’t we compare him to Bell’s first year? Bell is done.

[Scunge]

I am in complete agreement.

Those that say Bell makes a difference in the passing game that he would free up Brown more in the passing game? How?

Bell was strictly a guy last season who became increasingly more and more just a check down guy and his yards per catch was atrocious for the year and as you pointed out just terrible in those first 3 games.

Conner's 9.3 yards per catch shits all over what Bell did through those first 3 games last season.

Bell had 2 runs over 20+ yards for all of last season, 15 games. Conner already has 2 runs over 20+ yards in his first 3 games.

The offensive line is hurting right now and the blocking will get better and Conner will get better. But to say that if Bell were in there this season for the first 3 games and that he would be better than Conner? I just don't see it, sorry.

Conner is only 61 yards behind Zeke Elliot who leads the NFL in rushing with 274 yards. Conner is on pace for over 1,100 yards rushing and 80 catches.

It was laughable to see that crew last night fall all over themselves trying to defend Bell or to say he would make a difference.

[LakecrestSteeler]

I think Ben put a little dig in on Bell last night too, when he said that Conner out of the backfield on flares and middle screens, gets north south so fast...he was implying Bell doesn’t get the yardage that Conner does after the catch.

[Legacy User]

To me it’s the wrong even though I’d rather have bell.

Last night is essentially the pattern for the 2018 Steelers. Can Ben/Fitchner open it up, can the skill guys make plays, can the D hold on and make a few plays along the way.

Focus is off RB IMO. Kind of a good thing. No question bell makes the team better overall but he also reduces the options for O.

[Legacy User]

James Conner through 3 games this season:
54 carries / 213 yards / 3 TDs / 15 catches / 139 yards

LeVeon Bell through 3 games in the 2017 season:
52 carries / 180 yards / 1 TD / 13 catches / 56 yards

Granted game 4 of the 2017 season is when Bell’s stats really took off but I think it’s fair to say the team hasn’t missed their all pro running back so far in September.

Bell's presence on the field changes everything. His vision is unmatched, ability to catch a bullet from Ben with his hands, changes the coverage that defenses will run, and he always makes the first man miss. Conner is good, and will get better, but his impact on a game will never match Bell's. Is that good enough? Time will tell.

[Scunge]

What were Bell's fumble stats through 3 games?

This is right around the time Bell whined about not getting the ball enough.....just so he could whine a few months later he gets the ball too much.

I don't care about the fumble stats through the first 3 games as much as what Bell has done in his last 24 games.

Bell's first 38 games he fumbled just once.

Bell's last 24 games he has fumbled 7 times, fumbling once every 96 touches.

The idea that Conner can never fumble because Bell never fumbled is just bullshit plain and simple. There is this narrative that people like to spin about how Bell never fumbles, is so secure with the ball and it just is not true.

Conner is more dangerous with the ball as a receiver because he actually has speed and more of a burst than Bell. That 9.3 yards per catch does not lie. I also think Conner is more of a load and more physical to break tackles after the catch. Ben sees this and he saw the same thing when throwing to DeAngelo Williams too. Bell for all of his talent, has become more style and less substance.

[DP39]

I am in complete agreement.

Those that say Bell makes a difference in the passing game that he would free up Brown more in the passing game? How?

Bell was strictly a guy last season who became increasingly more and more just a check down guy and his yards per catch was atrocious for the year and as you pointed out just terrible in those first 3 games.

Conner's 9.3 yards per catch shits all over what Bell did through those first 3 games last season.

Bell had 2 runs over 20+ yards for all of last season, 15 games. Conner already has 2 runs over 20+ yards in his first 3 games.

The offensive line is hurting right now and the blocking will get better and Conner will get better. But to say that if Bell were in there this season for the first 3 games and that he would be better than Conner? I just don't see it, sorry.

Conner is only 61 yards behind Zeke Elliot who leads the NFL in rushing with 274 yards. Conner is on pace for over 1,100 yards rushing and 80 catches.

It was laughable to see that crew last night fall all over themselves trying to defend Bell or to say he would make a difference.

I agree, Scunge. Also, Bell was used as a split out a lot of times inside the 5-10 yardline area. Looks like Switzer is filling in nicely for Bell's (and Eli's) role there. Conner, Switzer and Samuels offer just as much at 1/10 the cost and zero headaches as Bell. I'll take that all day long, especially when we can spend that extra $15M on a few stud players for the D next year (maybe this year - still hoping for an Earl Thomas trade).

[LakecrestSteeler]

I am in complete agreement.

Those that say Bell makes a difference in the passing game that he would free up Brown more in the passing game? How?

Bell was strictly a guy last season who became increasingly more and more just a check down guy and his yards per catch was atrocious for the year and as you pointed out just terrible in those first 3 games.

Conner's 9.3 yards per catch shits all over what Bell did through those first 3 games last season.

Bell had 2 runs over 20+ yards for all of last season, 15 games. Conner already has 2 runs over 20+ yards in his first 3 games.

The offensive line is hurting right now and the blocking will get better and Conner will get better. But to say that if Bell were in there this season for the first 3 games and that he would be better than Conner? I just don't see it, sorry.

Conner is only 61 yards behind Zeke Elliot who leads the NFL in rushing with 274 yards. Conner is on pace for over 1,100 yards rushing and 80 catches.

It was laughable to see that crew last night fall all over themselves trying to defend Bell or to say he would make a difference.

I agree, Scunge. Also, Bell was used as a split out a lot of times inside the 5-10 yardline area. Looks like Switzer is filling in nicely for Bell's (and Eli's) role there. Conner, Switzer and Samuels offer just as much at 1/10 the cost and zero headaches as Bell. I'll take that all day long, especially when we can spend that extra $15M on a few stud players for the D next year (maybe this year - still hoping for an Earl Thomas trade).

Can’t put a price tag on offensive diversity.

And not having all your eggs in the Bell basket when injury strikes is worth a boat load too. Bell has been injured in the past and it has stung, especially in the playoffs.

[Legacy User]

James Conner through 3 games this season:
54 carries / 213 yards / 3 TDs / 15 catches / 139 yards

LeVeon Bell through 3 games in the 2017 season:
52 carries / 180 yards / 1 TD / 13 catches / 56 yards

Granted game 4 of the 2017 season is when Bell’s stats really took off but I think it’s fair to say the team hasn’t missed their all pro running back so far in September.

I said this last week and a bunch of the talking heads around here went nuts. It's getting more and more evident that we are as good, if not better, with JC.

Bell COULDN'T have helped the past few games because he would have to have been eased into his reps.

Stats don't lie. Our offense is statistically better without him.

Let me emphasize that again for those of you who are still in love with him...

OUR OFFENSE IS STATISTICALLY BETTER WITHOUT HIM.

I don't care how special he is. I don't care that he is the most patient back in the league. I just care about production.

Bell would NOT have broken tackles to salt the game away like JC did last night.

He's done. He's not a Steeler. Move on.

[Steelperch]

The fact they have to pull Conner from the field and use Switzer in packages to replace Bell shows they miss his diversity. From a running and production standpoint, the drop off is minimal. Pass blocking and diversity Bell brings is hard to replace, but they can get a quality #2 back in the draft next year to complement Conner.

[Legacy User]

James Conner through 3 games this season:
54 carries / 213 yards / 3 TDs / 15 catches / 139 yards

LeVeon Bell through 3 games in the 2017 season:
52 carries / 180 yards / 1 TD / 13 catches / 56 yards

Granted game 4 of the 2017 season is when Bell’s stats really took off but I think it’s fair to say the team hasn’t missed their all pro running back so far in September.

I completely disagree that they haven't missed Bell. Stats may tip in Conner's favor, but you can't tell me that a dynamic player like Bell couldn't have helped them in Cleveland and against the Chiefs. A play here or a play there could have made all the difference.

Conner is a fine RB and he's filling in admirably, but Bell is on another planet.

Yeah, one without football.

[Scunge]

The fact they have to pull Conner from the field and use Switzer in packages to replace Bell shows they miss his diversity. From a running and production standpoint, the drop off is minimal. Pass blocking and diversity Bell brings is hard to replace, but they can get a quality #2 back in the draft next year to complement Conner.

I have always thought that Bell and his receiving prowess are over rated.

Who cares if they bring in Switzer in place of Bell at times? It resulted in a TD, didn't it?

Bell all of last year was targeted 106 times in the passing game and we got 2 TDs as a result. Switzer has been targeted 6 times and already has 1 TD.

Also, Jaylin Samuels could very well still come on this season and be the complement to Conner, and who is to say that Conner doesn't really develop as a catcher as the season chugs along??

It is funny SP, I am not saying you are in this crowd, but there are a lot of people that just don't want to admit that this team can be successful without Bell. Be it Williams or Conner, the offense hasn't just collapsed, much to Bell and his supporters chagrin.

[Havoc]

Conner's 9.3 yards per catch shits all over what Bell did through those first 3 games last season..

Conner shits on Bell catching the football out in space. And his hands appear to be excellent.

If we had Bell, I would not take Conner's Y/R out of the offense.

If we had Bell, I would split the snaps between those 2.

[steelmann58]

the only way we miss Bell is that if he could play Corner

[zeke5123]

A lot of this is sour grapes. Bell is otherworldly. His last few seasons are ridiculous. I don't think he is what he once was, but what he is, he is.

Conner is an NFL RB. Bell is likely (but for the holdout ruining his career) a HOFer.

I do agree the offense became overly reliant on Bell. But if we ran this offense with Bell, I'd expect an additional 3 points or so a game.

[Havoc]

When this OL heals up, we will see Conner gashing teams again.

Conner's 20+ yd rushing TD in game 1... Does Slow Overrated Style Over Substance Motion even make it to the EZ on that play? I doubt it.

[Scunge]

You can't really believe that do you Zeke?

Bell is not a HOFer at his point, what has he really done?

Honestly, tell me what he has done that is better than say Marshall Faulk, or Ladanian Tomlinson or even David Johnson or Todd Gurley?

All of those RBs produce touchdowns. When is Bell going to have a 20+ touchdown season?

All of those RBs can break runs and catches for 20+ yards, 40+ yards.

Conner already this season has as many 20+ yards runs as Bell did for all of last season.

Bell's yards per catch and yard per carry have been declining. His runs and catches over 20+ yards have been declining. His fumbles have been increasing, fumbling 7 times in his last 24 games. How is any of that otherworldly? I would honestly like to know.

[FC]

There is no comparison between the two players.

Conner's vision is non existent
Conner'a ability to cut or set up blocks also non existent
Conner almost fumbled not once...Not twice...But almost 3 times yesterday
Conner is also below average in pass pro

Conner is a helluva story
A fine American

But a very average football player who is far more Tim Worley or Frank Pollard than Jerome Bettis or Franco Harris

BTW I think Bell is a piece of shit who should get hit by a bus

[Havoc]

Conner is likely nothing special but a good role player RB which makes his production with a healthy OL even more interesting in this discussion.

You can be both great and overrated. IMO Bell is both but a player in decline and has been for years. Needs volume like a volume shooter in the NBA to get his numbers.

[Donnie Brasco]

There is no comparison between the two players.

Conner's vision is non existent
Conner'a ability to cut or set up blocks also non existent
Conner almost fumbled not once...Not twice...But almost 3 times yesterday
Conner is also below average in pass pro

Conner is a helluva story
A fine American

But a very average football player who is far more Tim Worley or Frank Pollard than Jerome Bettis or Franco Harris

BTW I think Bell is a piece of shit who should get hit by a bus

Believe it was Connor who stepped up and stoned the rusher on the Macdonald td throw?

[Ice]

Scunge and FC, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I think Conner still has a good bit of growing up to do in the pro game, and a lot of what FC listed are things that can improve with time and NFL carries, reps and experience.

Love the personality, attitude, effort and story with the guy, and through the current situation, I don't think that's totally without merit.

I'll also agree that, while they did a pretty darn good job keeping Ben clean last night, the mounting O-line injuries may be taking a toll on RB production.

I'd like some more Ridley carries mixed in, as well.

[LakecrestSteeler]

The fact they have to pull Conner from the field and use Switzer in packages to replace Bell shows they miss his diversity. From a running and production standpoint, the drop off is minimal. Pass blocking and diversity Bell brings is hard to replace, but they can get a quality #2 back in the draft next year to complement Conner.

Just to be clear, I was talking diversity of players and not diversity of skill sets within one player, although the former is nice too. I think you understood what I meant and were just highlighting the downside of needing to pull Connor for Switz and showing your cards perhaps too much to the opposing DC.

I hate to plagiarize from the Patriots, but the diversity in the players on the offense creates complexity or at the very least the appearance of complexity, which is a good thing. The slot back coming in as a sub has worked for NE. The substitutions bake in breathers for the players without the coaches needing to monitor as much. It also bakes in “over reliance” prevention without the coaches worrying if they are forcing it to Brown or Bell too much. Could probably use a mechanism for Brown to break the Ben eye fucks as it is popularly called on the board. This whole paragraph is based on the assumption that the moneyball production exists and is delivered consistently.

Want to get rid of problems on a team? Spread real responsibility around to many team members and not just a few stars and spread real responsibilities and not menial responsibilities like running routes to clear lanes all the time. Look at the greatest teams and they all have true teams that really spread the ball around on the offensive side. Bye bye Bell and hello better chance to win number 7.

By the way Scunge’s stats on Bell’s turnovers are probably due to the correlation with his touches going up. There is perhaps a law of diminishing returns when your star RB gets too many touches. That is why this whole thing where he needs to ge paid as a RB and WR is ludicrous.

[Scunge]

Oh, I agree with you FC.

There is no comparison between Conner after his first 3 NFL starts and Bell who has started some 66 NFL games.

But if you compare Conner's first 3 NFL starts with Bell's first 3 NFL starts?

Bell was not the Bell he would become in his first season as a starter, it took time for him to develop. Bell actually had a woeful 3.5 yards per carry as a rookie, has everybody forgotten that?

Bell's first 3 NFL starts he had 51 carries for 184 yards and 2 TDs, he had 8 catches for 55 yards.

Conner with a banged up offensive line is shitting all over that.

Who is say how Conner will develop but having a healthy offensive line needs to happen first before we can criticize his ability to set up blocks or his vision. Many were quick to criticize his pass catching and how he would never be able to give us anything respectable, but he has. I like how he catches the ball and maximizes the yards, get north south and pick up the yards.

I am not saying he is the answer but then I believe in having a 2 RB system anyway. I am perfectly fine with them drafting a stud RB in round 1 or 2 next draft.

But with that being said, I still think Conner will rush for over 1,200 yards this season, catch 75 passes and score 11 TDs. And Conners' cap hit this season is just $755,000.

[Ice]

Sadly, I don't think we have the available draft capital available to draft RB 1st or 2nd next year. Artie Burns is a way bigger tire fire than backup RB, and that's not even putting ILB or OLB into the conversation.

Like I said, though, I'd be okay with more Ridley carries going forward.

[Scunge]

See Ice, it all depends on what you want from your RB position. I want what New Orleans and Atlanta have, a two RB attack, where it is hard to tell who is actually the backup RB, they are both starters, 1A, and 1B if you will.

You look at Tevin Coleman and Devonta Freeman with Atlanta and Ingram and Kamara with New Orleans, that is impressive and powerful to have a two RB attack.

Why can't we do the same? And yes, I think it is very doable.

If we have as much as $35-45 million in cap space next offseason I would prefer that the Steelers sign a CB or OLB or ILB in free agency. It is not as hopeless as some think.

[Ice]

Recency bias likely on my part, Scunge.

Williams and especially Burns were the huge wet fart in the stadium from where I was sitting.

In a perfect world, as RBs go, I agree with you.

As a reminder that we live in an imperfect one, check out Kamara's thoughts on Leveon Bell and RB salaries.

[SteelPowerful]

I am in complete agreement.

Those that say Bell makes a difference in the passing game that he would free up Brown more in the passing game? How?

The reason Brown is not running loose is because Martavis Bryant is gone. Bell is not the only missing piece to this offense. Some one else has to develop into a deep threat and command the respect that Bryant once did in this offense.