Ben speaks

[swissvale72]

And how many times have we gone 1 and done or failed to make the playoffs entirely since that last SB appearance way back in 2010?

This team has not delivered post season results anywhere close to the talent they have had at their disposal.

I'm saying, specific to this argument: They got a lot out of the team despite that dysfunction... and the dysfunction probably has something to do with the 1 and dones, also.

Yeah...had AB with the locker room bullshit prior to the AFCCG in '16. That following his coming up with a 3rd down catch against KC where Steelers probably lose had he and Ben not connected on that play.

In '17, the supposed dysfunction was so rampant that AB came back from injury and put up monster numbers against Jax...as sort of did LBell. That was the game where the game day dumbfuckedness was on full display.

'15...no Bell, no AB for Denver. Was it the dysfunction that lost that game or was if Fitzgerald Touissant's fumble...with no Bell.

'14...no Bell for the Saturday night massacre against Baltimore.

Then there were the non-playoff years.

But let's keep blaming AB & Bell.

[K_C_]

And how many times have we gone 1 and done or failed to make the playoffs entirely since that last SB appearance way back in 2010?

This team has not delivered post season results anywhere close to the talent they have had at their disposal.

I'm saying, specific to this argument: They got a lot out of the team despite that dysfunction... and the dysfunction probably has something to do with the 1 and dones, also.

Yeah...had AB with the locker room bullshit prior to the AFCCG in '16. That following his coming up with a 3rd down catch against KC where Steelers probably lose had he and Ben not connected on that play.

In '17, the supposed dysfunction was so rampant that AB came back from injury and put up monster numbers against Jax...as sort of did LBell. That was the game where the game day dumbfuckedness was on full display.

'15...no Bell, no AB for Denver. Was it the dysfunction that lost that game or was if Fitzgerald Touissant's fumble...with no Bell.

'14...no Bell for the Saturday night massacre against Baltimore.

Then there were the non-playoff years.

But let's keep blaming AB & Bell.

Sucks Bell was always hurt when they needed him.

Too bad.

[swissvale72]

So...guess it was his fault he blew out his knee in '15, then hyperextended in '14.

What was too bad was that the replacement was a serious downgrade.

[K_C_]

So...guess it was his fault he blew out his knee in '15, then hyperextended in '14.

What was too bad was that the replacement was a serious downgrade.

Yeah, a Pro Bowler in his first year as a starter who scored more TD's in part of a season, than Bell EVER scored in an entire season.



Conner averaged more yards per carry and yards per catch than Bell did in his last injury free year.

Face it, Bell is a slow-assed, less powerful Jerome Bettis clone who can catch short passes.

Thought he was going to make a new market for some kind of RB/WR hybrid.

How'd that work out? Oh yeah....dumbfuck signed with the Jets for less money than the Steelers offered him.

[swissvale72]

So...guess it was his fault he blew out his knee in '15, then hyperextended in '14.

What was too bad was that the replacement was a serious downgrade.

Yeah, a Pro Bowler in his first year as a starter who scored more TD's in part of a season, than Bell EVER scored in an entire season.



Conner averaged more yards per carry and yards per catch than Bell did in his last injury free year.

Face it, Bell is a slow-assed, less powerful Jerome Bettis clone who can catch short passes.

Thought he was going to make a new market for some kind of RB/WR hybrid.

How'd that work out? Oh yeah....dumbfuck signed with the Jets for less money than the Steelers offered him.

My reference was to the specific years in question, KC...but yeah, let's talk about James Connor. Is that the same kid whose fumble definitely cost the Steelers a win over Cleveland, and whose fumble arguably cost them a win against Denver...either of which would have put the Steelers in the playoffs?? Thought so!

[Thrillsseeker]

You don't know he would be the same guy in July that he was In January. My take?? I would have opted to have the guy on my team who was universally acknowledged throughout his career as the hardest worker on the team and one helluva a receiver, producing in some very big spots.

Pretty certain that little bitch would be the same bitch as last July about not staying at Latrobe because he’s too good for that. He quit. Most were happy he put up huge numbers and was a major contributor. Now, he’s a quitting little bitch. Buh bye. He ended his tenure being a complete bitch and a cancer to the TEAM.

[swissvale72]

You don't know he would be the same guy in July that he was In January. My take?? I would have opted to have the guy on my team who was universally acknowledged throughout his career as the hardest worker on the team and one helluva a receiver, producing in some very big spots.

Pretty certain that little bitch would be the same bitch as last July about not staying at Latrobe because he’s too good for that. He quit. Most were happy he put up huge numbers and was a major contributor. Now, he’s a quitting little bitch. Buh bye. He ended his tenure being a complete bitch and a cancer to the TEAM.

The little bitch from last July, who went on to catch 15 TDs, including game-winners?? THAT little bitch??

[jeemie]

So...guess it was his fault he blew out his knee in '15, then hyperextended in '14.

What was too bad was that the replacement was a serious downgrade.

Yeah, a Pro Bowler in his first year as a starter who scored more TD's in part of a season, than Bell EVER scored in an entire season.



Conner averaged more yards per carry and yards per catch than Bell did in his last injury free year.

Face it, Bell is a slow-assed, less powerful Jerome Bettis clone who can catch short passes.

Thought he was going to make a new market for some kind of RB/WR hybrid.

How'd that work out? Oh yeah....dumbfuck signed with the Jets for less money than the Steelers offered him.

My reference was to the specific years in question, KC...but yeah, let's talk about James Connor. Is that the same kid whose fumble definitely cost the Steelers a win over Cleveland, and whose fumble arguably cost them a win against Denver...either of which would have put the Steelers in the playoffs?? Thought so!

Once again- his fumble DID NOT cost them a win against Cleveland. The Steelers were up 21-7 at the time...it did not follow from Conner's fumble that they HAD to surrender 14 points in the last 8 minutes of the game.

He also did not cost them the game against Denver. There was plenty of football left and there were MULTIPLE turnovers that game, including one that took seven points off the board for the Steelers...but you're going to single out Conner?

[Thrillsseeker]

You don't know he would be the same guy in July that he was In January. My take?? I would have opted to have the guy on my team who was universally acknowledged throughout his career as the hardest worker on the team and one helluva a receiver, producing in some very big spots.

Pretty certain that little bitch would be the same bitch as last July about not staying at Latrobe because he’s too good for that. He quit. Most were happy he put up huge numbers and was a major contributor. Now, he’s a quitting little bitch. Buh bye. He ended his tenure being a complete bitch and a cancer to the TEAM.

The little bitch from last July, who went on to catch 15 TDs, including game-winners?? THAT little bitch??

Yes that little bitch. The one who ended up being the quitting bitch whom from now on will for me be forever known as the quitting whining little bitch.

[swissvale72]

Serious, Jeems?

So if you're asked...if James Connor doesn't fumble against the Browns, with his team up by two touchdowns, less than 8 minutes left, do the Steelers win? What would be your answer???

And against Denver....that's why I said arguably. Steelers were in position for a go-ahead score when the Connor fumbled. It ARGUABLY cost them the game.

[Legacy User]

As late as December 23, 1918, 3Q against New Orleans (and yes, I'm going to keep beating that horse!!), we were all singing his fuckin' praises....Go AB!!

WE were still singing AB's praises because WE were not in the locker room with AB. By December 23, 2018, the guys that WERE in the locker room had been getting sick of AB's act for some time such that his antics the week following the NO game were the last straw for them.

Swiss, seriously, AB fucked this team. He intentionally agitated to get a bigger contract and when he saw it wasn't coming from the Steelers, he intentionally agitated until he got the contract he wanted with another team. He put his desire for another contract above the Steelers. He engineered his trade to the Raiders for a bigger contract flipping the Steelers the bird on his way out of town. He made himself a pain in the ass until it happened. How do you not see this? How do you not understand why fans would be angry with him for this? How can you think things could be reconciled after that?

P.S. I'm sure you meant 2018. Or were we rooting for the Canton Bulldogs?

[swissvale72]

As late as December 23, 1918, 3Q against New Orleans (and yes, I'm going to keep beating that horse!!), we were all singing his fuckin' praises....Go AB!!

WE were still singing AB's praises because WE were not in the locker room with AB. By December 23, 2018, the guys that WERE in the locker room had been getting sick of AB's act for some time such that his antics the week following the NO game were the last straw for them.

Swiss, seriously, AB fucked this team. He intentionally agitated to get a bigger contract and when he saw it wasn't coming from the Steelers, he intentionally agitated until he got the contract he wanted with another team. He put his desire for another contract above the Steelers. He engineered his trade to the Raiders for a bigger contract flipping the Steelers the bird on his way out of town. He made himself a pain in the ass until it happened. How do you not see this? How do you not understand why fans would be angry with him for this? How can you think things could be reconciled after that?

P.S. I'm sure you meant 2018. Or were we rooting for the Canton Bulldogs?

Yeah 2018...not even sure the Canton Bulldogs were around during WWI.

Oh....I get people being pissed at him. What I don't get is this revisionist history around his value to the team on the field, the assumption that he was only targeted so much because he bitched if he wasn't...and yes, I had a belief that it was possible to resolve this shit and keep him a Steelers.

My primary argument...again...is this position taken by so many asshats on this esteemed website, that the Steelers will be a better football team without Antonio Brown.

[Louis Lipps Service]

My primary argument...again...is this position taken by so many asshats on this esteemed website, that the Steelers will be a better football team without Antonio Brown.

And to disagree with that sentiment is fine.

To call those who hold that sentiment delusional is not.


Seriously, if you’d come in here and say “I don’t believe we’ll be better without AB” like a reasonable, sane, person a lot of people might be ok with that opinion.

But to sit there and declare any opposing opinion delusional and impossible is just being an asshole.

[swissvale72]

My primary argument...again...is this position taken by so many asshats on this esteemed website, that the Steelers will be a better football team without Antonio Brown.

And to disagree with that sentiment is fine.

To call those who hold that sentiment delusional is not.


Seriously, if you’d come in here and say “I don’t believe we’ll be better without AB” like a reasonable, sane, person a lot of people might be ok with that opinion.

But to sit there and declare any opposing opinion delusional and impossible is just being an asshole.

Okay Lipps...I'll change my assessment from delusional to Wishful Fuckin' Thinking....sort of like a 6-year-old who puts a rocket ship on the wish list he's sending to the North Pole.

Again, the math...in December 2017, Steelers had...
*Arguably best running back in football
*Arguably best receiver in football
*One of best two or three inside linebackers in football

Now, they have none of those guys. Now...minus all of those guys, they're coached by the same DumbFuck, owned by the same DumberFuck. But they'll be better next year?

Send that fuckin' wish list to Santa, Lipps.

[Thrillsseeker]

Serious, Jeems?

So if you're asked...if James Connor doesn't fumble against the Browns, with his team up by two touchdowns, less than 8 minutes left, do the Steelers win? What would be your answer???

And against Denver....that's why I said arguably. Steelers were in position for a go-ahead score when the Connor fumbled. It ARGUABLY cost them the game.

There it is. Argue. Accentuated in your post. You’re certainly looking to argue that’s apparent. I look a good debate as much as anyone but you’re teetering on the fence almost trolling.

[Louis Lipps Service]

My primary argument...again...is this position taken by so many asshats on this esteemed website, that the Steelers will be a better football team without Antonio Brown.

And to disagree with that sentiment is fine.

To call those who hold that sentiment delusional is not.


Seriously, if you’d come in here and say “I don’t believe we’ll be better without AB” like a reasonable, sane, person a lot of people might be ok with that opinion.

But to sit there and declare any opposing opinion delusional and impossible is just being an asshole.

Okay Lipps...I'll change my assessment from delusional to Wishful Fuckin' Thinking....sort of like a 6-year-old who puts a rocket ship on the wish list he's sending to the North Pole.

Again, the math...in December 2017, Steelers had...
*Arguably best running back in football
*Arguably best receiver in football
*One of best two or three inside linebackers in football

Now, they have none of those guys. Now...minus all of those guys, they're coached by the same DumbFuck, owned by the same DumberFuck. But they'll be better next year?

Send that fuckin' wish list to Santa, Lipps.

So you’re an asshole. Got it.

This tells me you’re completely beyond any semblance of a reasonable discussion.

Shame. There was a time when I respected your opinion on these boards.

My respect for posters often disappears once they start trying to pass their opinions off as fact.

And you, my friend, have pole vaulted over that line.

[Legacy User]

What Swiss means to say is that IF AB would cease and desist being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers would be better with him than without him. And Swiss believes AB would have done.

What the opposing side is saying is that IF AB were to continue being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers will be better without him. And the opposing side believes he would.

So, as I have pointed out over and over and over, Swiss is arguing against the dumbest possible reading of the opposing side’s position, conveniently ignoring the more charitable reading, presented again herein, and which is hardly unreasonable or delusional.

If Swiss were not so wholly given to eristic, he’d start posting, “It’s delusional to think that the Steelers will be better minus AB so long as AB is not acting like a malcontent and quitting on the team. And it is my belief that come July, AB would have been back in the fold.”

Because what’s delusional and utterly stupid beyond repair is to opine that, “The team will be better with an AB who quits on the team and acts like a malcontent than without.”

[alancac98]

What Swiss means to say is that IF AB would cease and desist being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers would be better with him than without him. And Swiss believes AB would have done.

What the opposing side is saying is that IF AB were to continue being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers will be better without him. And the opposing side believes he would.

So, as I have pointed out over and over and over, Swiss is arguing against the dumbest possible reading of the opposing side’s position, conveniently ignoring the more charitable reading, presented again herein, and which is hardly unreasonable or delusional.

If Swiss were not so wholly given to eristic, he’d start posting, “It’s delusional to think that the Steelers will be better minus AB so long as AB is not acting like a malcontent and quitting on the team. And it is my belief that come July, AB would have been back in the fold.”

Because what’s delusional and utterly stupid beyond repair is to opine that, “The team will be better with an AB who quits on the team and acts like a malcontent than without.”

Very well thought out and said Lit. I think you summarized perfectly.

[alancac98]

Truth is we will never know until the conclusion of the 2019-20 NFL season as to how things will go for both the Steelers and AB. Another truth is we will never know if AB would have toned down his rhetoric enough to be a viable member of this team nor if the team would have even accepted him back as the brother he once was! The best we can do now is to move on and hope our Steelers use all of this drama to ignite them and hope that AB breaks his fucking leg into numerous pieces and never returns to form to chase Jerry Rices numbers (which I highly doubt he will do anyways).

[swissvale72]

What Swiss means to say is that IF AB would cease and desist being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers would be better with him than without him. And Swiss believes AB would have done.

What the opposing side is saying is that IF AB were to continue being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers will be better without him. And the opposing side believes he would.

So, as I have pointed out over and over and over, Swiss is arguing against the dumbest possible reading of the opposing side’s position, conveniently ignoring the more charitable reading, presented again herein, and which is hardly unreasonable or delusional.

If Swiss were not so wholly given to eristic, he’d start posting, “It’s delusional to think that the Steelers will be better minus AB so long as AB is not acting like a malcontent and quitting on the team. And it is my belief that come July, AB would have been back in the fold.”

Because what’s delusional and utterly stupid beyond repair is to opine that, “The team will be better with an AB who quits on the team and acts like a malcontent than without.”

Thanks for your attempt to present my beliefs, Lit...but you're not quite correct.

First of all, I obviously don't KNOW what AB would have been like come July, but more that I would like to believe that any toxicity would have been more than offset by on-field production.

Here's some examples...
*Is his arriving to training camp by helicopter, staying off-campus more than offset by his scoring a pair of TDs versus Atlanta?
*Is his throwing shit on the sideline more than offset by his scoring two more TDs versus Cleveland?
*Is his driving 100 mph on McKnight Road more than offset by his scoring the game-winner vs. Cinci?
*Is his throwing shit off his balcony, and yes, almost hitting a toddler (thankfully that didn't happen) more than offset by his catching 10 balls for a buck and a half and a score versus Chargers?
*And finally, is his being upset at not being voted Team MVP more than offset by his catching 14 balls for 185 and two TDs versus the Saints?

Without having been there, I think the answer to all of those questions is YES. I do know a couple of things...
*None of us asshats, not one, on this esteemed website was calling Antonio Brown a toxic asshole after any of those games noted above.
*And...much as the assembled populace herein don't like hearing this, even Roberto Clemente had plenty to say after a teammate (Swissvale's Dick Groat) was voted an award that he coveted.

And again...I have no clue what kind of mental/emotional shape this guy would have shown up to camp in. I do know that his on-field production is not easily replaced by JuJu, a JAG from Jacksonville, a guy that everyone hated on last year, and a rookie from Toledo.

And yes, I believe to claim that it will be, just because people want it so...is....delusional.

[jeemie]

Serious, Jeems?

So if you're asked...if James Connor doesn't fumble against the Browns, with his team up by two touchdowns, less than 8 minutes left, do the Steelers win? What would be your answer???

And against Denver....that's why I said arguably. Steelers were in position for a go-ahead score when the Connor fumbled. It ARGUABLY cost them the game.

There were 8 minutes left in the game and they were at their own 8 yard line. My answer is who knows?

You can't point to an event that occurred with that much time left, AND the Steelers up by two scores, and claim that's the reason a team lost (or tied, in this case).

It's just dumb.

[Legacy User]

What Swiss means to say is that IF AB would cease and desist being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers would be better with him than without him. And Swiss believes AB would have done.

What the opposing side is saying is that IF AB were to continue being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers will be better without him. And the opposing side believes he would.

So, as I have pointed out over and over and over, Swiss is arguing against the dumbest possible reading of the opposing side’s position, conveniently ignoring the more charitable reading, presented again herein, and which is hardly unreasonable or delusional.

If Swiss were not so wholly given to eristic, he’d start posting, “It’s delusional to think that the Steelers will be better minus AB so long as AB is not acting like a malcontent and quitting on the team. And it is my belief that come July, AB would have been back in the fold.”

Because what’s delusional and utterly stupid beyond repair is to opine that, “The team will be better with an AB who quits on the team and acts like a malcontent than without.”

Thanks for your attempt to present my beliefs, Lit...but you're not quite correct.

First of all, I obviously don't KNOW what AB would have been like come July, but more that I would like to believe that any toxicity would have been more than offset by on-field production.

Here's some examples...
*Is his arriving to training camp by helicopter, staying off-campus more than offset by his scoring a pair of TDs versus Atlanta?
*Is his throwing shit on the sideline more than offset by his scoring two more TDs versus Cleveland?
*Is his driving 100 mph on McKnight Road more than offset by his scoring the game-winner vs. Cinci?
*Is his throwing shit off his balcony, and yes, almost hitting a toddler (thankfully that didn't happen) more than offset by his catching 10 balls for a buck and a half and a score versus Chargers?
*And finally, is his being upset at not being voted Team MVP more than offset by his catching 14 balls for 185 and two TDs versus the Saints?

Without having been there, I think the answer to all of those questions is YES. I do know a couple of things...
*None of us asshats, not one, on this esteemed website was calling Antonio Brown a toxic asshole after any of those games noted above.
*And...much as the assembled populace herein don't like hearing this, even Roberto Clemente had plenty to say after a teammate (Swissvale's Dick Groat) was voted an award that he coveted.

And again...I have no clue what kind of mental/emotional shape this guy would have shown up to camp in. I do know that his on-field production is not easily replaced by JuJu, a JAG from Jacksonville, a guy that everyone hated on last year, and a rookie from Toledo.

And yes, I believe to claim that it will be, just because people want it so...is....delusional.

Your response affirms that I presented your beliefs accurately

And everything you listed happened prior to his quitting on the team temper tantruming his way out of town.

So, once again, your take is reasonable. The charitable view I have presented of the opposing position is also reasonable and hardly delusional. Your position rests on AB returning to being merely a diva in which case the Steelers are worse off without him.. The opposing position (charitably read) depends on supposing AB does not return to merely being a diva but remains a toxic I want out malcontent in which case the team is arguable worse with him.

Both positions are reasonable. Neither is delusional, Easter bunny, Santa, whatever.

But keep telling everyone who disagrees that they are stupid despite the fact that you yourself openly admit you have no clue what AB would be like if still here.

You are intentionally reading an opposing position in the worst possible light and disagreeing with the position viewed under that light.

Now, I admit, there are probably a couple of idiots who think the team is better without AB regardless of whether AB starts seeking therapy or not.

[swissvale72]

Serious, Jeems?

So if you're asked...if James Connor doesn't fumble against the Browns, with his team up by two touchdowns, less than 8 minutes left, do the Steelers win? What would be your answer???

And against Denver....that's why I said arguably. Steelers were in position for a go-ahead score when the Connor fumbled. It ARGUABLY cost them the game.

There were 8 minutes left in the game and they were at their own 8 yard line. My answer is who knows?

You can't point to an event that occurred with that much time left, AND the Steelers up by two scores, and claim that's the reason a team lost (or tied, in this case).

It's just dumb.

What's reallllllyyyyy dumb, Jeems, is to continue to deny it.

I assume you were watching that fuckin' game, as was everyone else here. Steelers had it under complete control. ONLY thing negating a win was to completely fuck up....like give Cleveland the ball on Steelers 1-yard line. And that's exactly what the Connors fumble did.

[swissvale72]

What Swiss means to say is that IF AB would cease and desist being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers would be better with him than without him. And Swiss believes AB would have done.

What the opposing side is saying is that IF AB were to continue being a toxic malcontent, the Steelers will be better without him. And the opposing side believes he would.

So, as I have pointed out over and over and over, Swiss is arguing against the dumbest possible reading of the opposing side’s position, conveniently ignoring the more charitable reading, presented again herein, and which is hardly unreasonable or delusional.

If Swiss were not so wholly given to eristic, he’d start posting, “It’s delusional to think that the Steelers will be better minus AB so long as AB is not acting like a malcontent and quitting on the team. And it is my belief that come July, AB would have been back in the fold.”

Because what’s delusional and utterly stupid beyond repair is to opine that, “The team will be better with an AB who quits on the team and acts like a malcontent than without.”

Thanks for your attempt to present my beliefs, Lit...but you're not quite correct.

First of all, I obviously don't KNOW what AB would have been like come July, but more that I would like to believe that any toxicity would have been more than offset by on-field production.

Here's some examples...
*Is his arriving to training camp by helicopter, staying off-campus more than offset by his scoring a pair of TDs versus Atlanta?
*Is his throwing shit on the sideline more than offset by his scoring two more TDs versus Cleveland?
*Is his driving 100 mph on McKnight Road more than offset by his scoring the game-winner vs. Cinci?
*Is his throwing shit off his balcony, and yes, almost hitting a toddler (thankfully that didn't happen) more than offset by his catching 10 balls for a buck and a half and a score versus Chargers?
*And finally, is his being upset at not being voted Team MVP more than offset by his catching 14 balls for 185 and two TDs versus the Saints?

Without having been there, I think the answer to all of those questions is YES. I do know a couple of things...
*None of us asshats, not one, on this esteemed website was calling Antonio Brown a toxic asshole after any of those games noted above.
*And...much as the assembled populace herein don't like hearing this, even Roberto Clemente had plenty to say after a teammate (Swissvale's Dick Groat) was voted an award that he coveted.

And again...I have no clue what kind of mental/emotional shape this guy would have shown up to camp in. I do know that his on-field production is not easily replaced by JuJu, a JAG from Jacksonville, a guy that everyone hated on last year, and a rookie from Toledo.

And yes, I believe to claim that it will be, just because people want it so...is....delusional.

Your response affirms that I presented your beliefs accurately

And everything you listed happened prior to his quitting on the team temper tantruming his way out of town.

So, once again, your take is reasonable. The charitable view I have presented of the opposing position is also reasonable and hardly delusional. Your position rests on AB returning to being merely a diva in which case the Steelers are worse off without him.. The opposing position (charitably read) depends on supposing AB does not return to merely being a diva but remains a toxic I want out malcontent in which case the team is arguable worse with him.

Both positions are reasonable. Neither is delusional, Easter bunny, Santa, whatever.

But keep telling everyone who disagrees that they are stupid despite the fact that you yourself openly admit you have no clue what AB would be like if still here.

You are intentionally reading an opposing position in the worst possible light and disagreeing with the position viewed under that light.

Now, I admit, there are probably a couple of idiots who think the team is better without AB regardless of whether AB starts seeking therapy or not.

Sorry Lit...I believe you hold yourself as the czar of logic and reason on this esteemed website, but you state that "Swiss believe AB would have done," referring to his ceasing to be a toxic malcontent. I said I would like to believe that, which is different than saying that I do believe it. For instance, I guess it's possible that AB could have come back and pulled his disappearing act from practice every single week. I don't know. Then again, maybe he's back and being the model teammate, in addition to continuing to be the hardest worker on the team, for which he was universally acknowledged throughout his career.

And....I don't believe I've called anyone stupid. You, probably moreso than most, know there to be a significant difference between stupid and merely delusional.

[Legacy User]

Fair enough, but it is stupid to embrace delusional things. I’ll leave off an explanation of analytic vs synthetic propositions.

I wonder that you fail to realize that I have given several arguments that justify the reasonableness of your position. I wonder that you fail to appreciate that have not been arguing against your position. What I have done is point out the BS tactic of reading your opponent’s position in the worst possible manner and then attacking that position viewed in that worst possible interpretation.

See, it would be as if someone were to say, “Wow, that Swiss is a real moron! He actually thinks that were AB to start kicking infants, his talents would supersede the headaches that would follow!”

Seems to me that what makes the opposing position reasonable is that AB quit on the team and then temper tantrumed his way out the door. It is reasonable to take the position that were AB to continue that kind of behavior, that the team is better off moving on. You may not and need not agree with it, but it is not “delusional.”

I’ll let others speak for themselves. And for the record, I am not convinced Ben forced balls to AB as much as Ben thinks that chucking a ball to AB under any conditions is a risk worth taking.

[Ice]

The Future...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj6ap76Wt-0[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB8ZBj0Vq40[/youtube]

Add in an improvement from Washington, Johnson, Moncrief and some contributors from the RB position, and that doesn't exactly suck.

[alancac98]

I am not sure his teammates would want him back - no matter how much ass kissing he did. The relationship between he and his teammates was broken - irreparably I believe. The telling moment was when reports came out that if AB played against Cinci, many members of the team were going to walk out (I believe the entire OLine was gonna walk) as well as other members of the team. That is a huge statement that cannot be brushed under the carpet with a promise from AB that he will behave and conform. No matter what AB would have done during the off-season to patch things up, I am afraid that the damage was too severe to mend the fence. From a player perspective - he was done in Pittsburgh! I think it was more the players that forced the FO to take what they could instead of playing hardball with AB to keep him. It just wasn't a little writing on the wall - the place had been fully graffitied over! Just my take.

[Legacy User]

Oh, and a post script:

Swiss, you saying you believe AB would or would not continue his post-NO behavior? Because if you believe he would and you still want him on the team, still think his talent would be worth him quitting on the team, etc,, let’s get that on the record.

And if you do not believe he would cease quitting on the team, well, did I really muscharacterize your position after all?

Or are you saying you have no clue how he would behave but even having no clue can confidently assert team would be better with him? Because if this third option is the case, we have an internal contradiction, or at least a tension, in your position: can’t k ow how he would behave but can know we’ll be worse without him THAN with him...

[swissvale72]

Fair enough, but it is stupid to embrace delusional things. I’ll leave off an explanation of analytic vs synthetic propositions.

I wonder that you fail to realize that I have given several arguments that justify the reasonableness of your position. I wonder that you fail to appreciate that have not been arguing against your position. What I have done is point out the BS tactic of reading your opponent’s position in the worst possible manner and then attacking that position viewed in that worst possible interpretation.

See, it would be as if someone were to say, “Wow, that Swiss is a real moron! He actually thinks that were AB to start kicking infants, his talents would supersede the headaches that would follow!”

Seems to me that what makes the opposing position reasonable is that AB quit on the team and then temper tantrumed his way out the door. It is reasonable to take the position that were AB to continue that kind of behavior, that the team is better off moving on. You may not and need not agree with it, but it is not “delusional.”

I’ll let others speak for themselves. And for the record, I am not convinced Ben forced balls to AB as much as Ben thinks that chucking a ball to AB under any conditions is a risk worth taking.

I do appreciate your efforts to be fair, and even charitable, Lit. That said, I want to be clear that I wasn't necessarily predicting that AB would come back to the fold and not be toxic, but rather that I was hopeful that that could happen.

Again though, other than his hijinks the final week of the season (and I acknowledge that's akin to..."Other than the shooting, Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?"), I remain of the opinion that it's delusional to believe that Steelers won't miss this guy's PRODUCTION. As I think you see, and may have stated, some believe that Steelers will be as good, or better, on the field, with the collection of wides on their roster presently. THAT, I believe, is indeed delusional.

[swissvale72]

Oh, and a post script:

Swiss, you saying you believe AB would or would not continue his post-NO behavior? Because if you believe he would and you still want him on the team, still think his talent would be worth him quitting on the team, etc,, let’s get that on the record.

And if you do not believe he would cease quitting on the team, well, did I really muscharacterize your position after all?

Or are you saying you have no clue how he would behave but even having no clue can confidently assert team would be better with him? Because if this third option is the case, we have an internal contradiction, or at least a tension, in your position: can’t k ow how he would behave but can know we’ll be worse without him THAN with him...

In the order of the questions, you asked, Lit....
1. I don't know; I would hope not.
2. Because I don't know, yes, I think you mischaracterized my position.
3. AB's production will NOT, my humble opinion, be equaled, or nearly equaled, by the current collection of wides.