Pretty obvious that Levis > Kenny

[jmacinwbp]

"Levis was brutally awful in the second half. Pickett wasn’t."

I think things started to go south for Levis when Austin switched from mostly zone, to a lot more man coverage. Others can comment on which is easier to beat as a QB, and why man seemed to be such a game changer.

[tbsteel]

Does Pickett have a single 4th quarter comeback in his career when down 7 or more points?

[Mick]

Does Pickett have a single 4th quarter comeback in his career when down 7 or more points?

They were down 10 vs baltimore last year.

Also down 10 vs baltimore this year. So twice, in however many starts.

Edit: i read post as ‘more than seven points’, post actually says ‘seven or more points’, so Rams would also count. But possible you meant ‘8 or more points, with that level of deficit still present at some point in the 4th quarter’, in which case i don’t think any games would hit that so far.

[stillthere]

I agree the throw to Calvin was off, but wouldn't it be nice to be able to step into throws and not have the center of your line cave and get you hit?

I know what you are saying but I have been informed that Will Levis has natural arm talent that KP8 will never have. So this is a moot point. If KP8 doesn't have Will Levis arm strength and Brock Purdy's AI brain and some other odd thing and someone didn't want him in their mock draft yadda yadda yadda.

How many QBs are 12-5 in their last 17? Gotta be a short list.

What a dumb talking point.

First, look at the record of those teams Pickett got 12 wins against. It isn’t great.

Second, Trent Dilfer once won a QB. He must be an amazing QB. After all, look at his record that season. I’m sure it was around 12-5.

Third, sometimes teams luck into wins and that luck runs for more than a few games. Look at the stat that the Steelers are the first team to be outgained in every game through 8 weeks and have a winning record in NFL history. Do we really think the Steelers are that much of a outlier that they’ve unlocked a code no one in NFL history has to win these close games where they are outgained consistently or do we think they’ve just got an immense run of luck?

Does record matter for QBs? To me, I only look at records once a QB has established himself as a top tier QB. If a QB has stats placing them in the bottom 10 I don’t even consider record because the QB isn’t really doing much to get that record.

You don't get to choose the schedule. The league determines the schedule. Maybe the league should relegate teams to lower leagues so all the teams are always super duper good. Still leaves a pretty short list of 12-5 QB's in the last 17 but why keep score or track of records if they don't mean shit because Superb-Owl Chompion Trent Dilfer didn't do things as pretty as you liked.

[zeke5123]

I know what you are saying but I have been informed that Will Levis has natural arm talent that KP8 will never have. So this is a moot point. If KP8 doesn't have Will Levis arm strength and Brock Purdy's AI brain and some other odd thing and someone didn't want him in their mock draft yadda yadda yadda.

How many QBs are 12-5 in their last 17? Gotta be a short list.

What a dumb talking point.

First, look at the record of those teams Pickett got 12 wins against. It isn’t great.

Second, Trent Dilfer once won a QB. He must be an amazing QB. After all, look at his record that season. I’m sure it was around 12-5.

Third, sometimes teams luck into wins and that luck runs for more than a few games. Look at the stat that the Steelers are the first team to be outgained in every game through 8 weeks and have a winning record in NFL history. Do we really think the Steelers are that much of a outlier that they’ve unlocked a code no one in NFL history has to win these close games where they are outgained consistently or do we think they’ve just got an immense run of luck?

Does record matter for QBs? To me, I only look at records once a QB has established himself as a top tier QB. If a QB has stats placing them in the bottom 10 I don’t even consider record because the QB isn’t really doing much to get that record.

You don't get to choose the schedule. The league determines the schedule. Maybe the league should relegate teams to lower leagues so all the teams are always super duper good. Still leaves a pretty short list of 12-5 QB's in the last 17 but why keep score or track of records if they don't mean shit because Superb-Owl Chompion Trent Dilfer didn't do things as pretty as you liked.

You seem not to understand the point which is that a lot of things go into a QB’s success. Trent dilfer was not a good QB. But he found himself on the right team at the right time. Ditto Brad Johnson. Would you give Dilfer a giant contract after the Super Bowl? After all, he just won the SB! Your logic says “yes” though you know that would be idiotic.

You are saying Pickett must be good due to his record. I’m saying “Steelers getting good D and a lot of lucky bounces propelled that record.”

[Mick]

Pickett’s 10-1 in his last 11 full games, supported by what is currently the #24 run game and # 30 defense. Not going to look it up but i think dilfer’s D and run game were higher ranked than that. Obviously you could rearrange this line of argument any way you want; Najee Harris is currently carrying one of the worst passing games and defenses in the league into playoff position. What a beast. Steelers secondary carrying one of the worst run defenses and offenses…

Amazing the things you can say when you are bad at almost everything yet usually win.

[K_C_]

What a dumb talking point.

First, look at the record of those teams Pickett got 12 wins against. It isn’t great.

Second, Trent Dilfer once won a QB. He must be an amazing QB. After all, look at his record that season. I’m sure it was around 12-5.

Third, sometimes teams luck into wins and that luck runs for more than a few games. Look at the stat that the Steelers are the first team to be outgained in every game through 8 weeks and have a winning record in NFL history. Do we really think the Steelers are that much of a outlier that they’ve unlocked a code no one in NFL history has to win these close games where they are outgained consistently or do we think they’ve just got an immense run of luck?

Does record matter for QBs? To me, I only look at records once a QB has established himself as a top tier QB. If a QB has stats placing them in the bottom 10 I don’t even consider record because the QB isn’t really doing much to get that record.

You don't get to choose the schedule. The league determines the schedule. Maybe the league should relegate teams to lower leagues so all the teams are always super duper good. Still leaves a pretty short list of 12-5 QB's in the last 17 but why keep score or track of records if they don't mean shit because Superb-Owl Chompion Trent Dilfer didn't do things as pretty as you liked.

You seem not to understand the point which is that a lot of things go into a QB’s success. Trent dilfer was not a good QB. But he found himself on the right team at the right time. Ditto Brad Johnson. Would you give Dilfer a giant contract after the Super Bowl? After all, he just won the SB! Your logic says “yes” though you know that would be idiotic.

You are saying Pickett must be good due to his record. I’m saying “Steelers getting good D and a lot of lucky bounces propelled that record.”

I loved the lucky bounces Pickett got in the last game like the ball clanking off Diontae Johnson’s hands and his gut the play before Kenny had to hit him again for a TD and George Pickens half assing his way through a perfectly thrown pass to fuck up an easy TD. So lucky.

As for the defense, they were lucky enough to drop about 5 Will Levis INTS before finally coming down with the game winner.

[zeke5123]

Pickett’s 10-1 in his last 11 full games, supported by what is currently the #24 run game and # 30 defense. Not going to look it up but i think dilfer’s D and run game were higher ranked than that. Obviously you could rearrange this line of argument any way you want; Najee Harris is currently carrying one of the worst passing games and defenses in the league into playoff position. What a beast. Steelers secondary carrying one of the worst run defenses and offenses…

Amazing the things you can say when you are bad at almost everything yet usually win.

Defensive rank is based off of yards given up. They don’t normalize for possession etc.

[tbsteel]

Does Pickett have a single 4th quarter comeback in his career when down 7 or more points?

They were down 10 vs baltimore last year.

Also down 10 vs baltimore this year. So twice, in however many starts.

Edit: i read post as ‘more than seven points’, post actually says ‘seven or more points’, so Rams would also count. But possible you meant ‘8 or more points, with that level of deficit still present at some point in the 4th quarter’, in which case i don’t think any games would hit that so far.

Thanks for looking into it.

We were down 13-6 going into the 4th against Baltimore last year, so that's really the only one last year we were down 7 or more.

We were down 10-3 against Baltimore this year, but then the D/STs had the blocked punt/safety into the end zone to make it 10-5. I'm not going to count that.

We were down 17-10 against the Rams, that'll count.

So I'll give him two times, both of those where we were down 7 points.

I'm just not a fan acting like Kenny is slinging it all over the field in the fourth quarter and bringing us back from multiple scores, or going toe-to-toe with another QB like Ben was doing back in the day.

You know what is interesting about all of the games mentioned above? Combined amount of points given up in the 4th quarter by the D in those games? 0. That whole team game thing and whatnot.

[zeke5123]

Does Pickett have a single 4th quarter comeback in his career when down 7 or more points?

They were down 10 vs baltimore last year.

Also down 10 vs baltimore this year. So twice, in however many starts.

Edit: i read post as ‘more than seven points’, post actually says ‘seven or more points’, so Rams would also count. But possible you meant ‘8 or more points, with that level of deficit still present at some point in the 4th quarter’, in which case i don’t think any games would hit that so far.

Thanks for looking into it.

We were down 13-6 going into the 4th against Baltimore last year, so that's really the only one last year we were down 7 or more.

We were down 10-3 against Baltimore this year, but then the D/STs had the blocked punt/safety into the end zone to make it 10-5. I'm not going to count that.

We were down 17-10 against the Rams, that'll count.

So I'll give him two times, both of those where we were down 7 points.

I'm just not a fan acting like Kenny is slinging it all over the field in the fourth quarter and bringing us back from multiple scores, or going toe-to-toe with another QB like Ben was doing back in the day.

You know what is interesting about all of the games mentioned above? Combined amount of points given up in the 4th quarter by the D in those games? 0. That whole team game thing and whatnot.

It is also telling that the overall score is so low. In the last Ravens game, the Ravens missed I don’t know how many chances to blow it open. Same thing happened with the Rams game.

[jmacinwbp]

What a dumb talking point.

First, look at the record of those teams Pickett got 12 wins against. It isn’t great.

Second, Trent Dilfer once won a QB. He must be an amazing QB. After all, look at his record that season. I’m sure it was around 12-5.

Third, sometimes teams luck into wins and that luck runs for more than a few games. Look at the stat that the Steelers are the first team to be outgained in every game through 8 weeks and have a winning record in NFL history. Do we really think the Steelers are that much of a outlier that they’ve unlocked a code no one in NFL history has to win these close games where they are outgained consistently or do we think they’ve just got an immense run of luck?

Does record matter for QBs? To me, I only look at records once a QB has established himself as a top tier QB. If a QB has stats placing them in the bottom 10 I don’t even consider record because the QB isn’t really doing much to get that record.

You don't get to choose the schedule. The league determines the schedule. Maybe the league should relegate teams to lower leagues so all the teams are always super duper good. Still leaves a pretty short list of 12-5 QB's in the last 17 but why keep score or track of records if they don't mean shit because Superb-Owl Chompion Trent Dilfer didn't do things as pretty as you liked.

You seem not to understand the point which is that a lot of things go into a QB’s success. Trent dilfer was not a good QB. But he found himself on the right team at the right time. Ditto Brad Johnson. Would you give Dilfer a giant contract after the Super Bowl? After all, he just won the SB! Your logic says “yes” though you know that would be idiotic.

You are saying Pickett must be good due to his record. I’m saying “Steelers getting good D and a lot of lucky bounces propelled that record.”

They are currently 30th in the league in defensive yards allowed per game, I would not call that playing good D. The stains sure, but not our D.

[Mick]

You don't get to choose the schedule. The league determines the schedule. Maybe the league should relegate teams to lower leagues so all the teams are always super duper good. Still leaves a pretty short list of 12-5 QB's in the last 17 but why keep score or track of records if they don't mean shit because Superb-Owl Chompion Trent Dilfer didn't do things as pretty as you liked.

You seem not to understand the point which is that a lot of things go into a QB’s success. Trent dilfer was not a good QB. But he found himself on the right team at the right time. Ditto Brad Johnson. Would you give Dilfer a giant contract after the Super Bowl? After all, he just won the SB! Your logic says “yes” though you know that would be idiotic.

You are saying Pickett must be good due to his record. I’m saying “Steelers getting good D and a lot of lucky bounces propelled that record.”

They are currently 30th in the league in defensive yards allowed per game, I would not call that playing good D. The stains sure, but not our D.

but adjusting for number of possessions, they are up in 26th place.

[Kodiak.]

but adjusting for number of possessions, they are up in 26th place.

A sack or a turnover is pretty much the only way they get off the field. The latter is not sustainable - when the TOs inevitably dry up, we're going to have to do a lot more on offense.

Defenses also typically start faster, and then as the year goes on the offenses start winning more. I also can't imagine the defense can sustain this effort and minutes and will probably hit a wall before long.

[jmacinwbp]

You seem not to understand the point which is that a lot of things go into a QB’s success. Trent dilfer was not a good QB. But he found himself on the right team at the right time. Ditto Brad Johnson. Would you give Dilfer a giant contract after the Super Bowl? After all, he just won the SB! Your logic says “yes” though you know that would be idiotic.

You are saying Pickett must be good due to his record. I’m saying “Steelers getting good D and a lot of lucky bounces propelled that record.”

They are currently 30th in the league in defensive yards allowed per game, I would not call that playing good D. The stains sure, but not our D.

but adjusting for number of possessions, they are up in 26th place.

Still not good stats wise, but I get it, starting games with 5 straight possessions of 3 or less plays from the O, are part of the reason the #s are sooo bad for the D.

I have this argument every week with the phuns fans at work in Miami. I say the main problem on the team is the schemes, and O coordinator, and bitch that canafraud needs to go, and they look at the D stats and say wait a minute....the D is worse than the O, you stillers fans have some balls, complaining about canafraud.... what about the D coordinator.

That's when I say, yeah Austin ain't all that, wish they would have offered the position to B. Flores instead of letting him bolt to the Vikes. Man, anyone who watches our full games knows the measly TOP of the O is just killing the D, but fantasy RedZone fans dropping in for short flashes can't grasp this concept.

[zeke5123]

You don't get to choose the schedule. The league determines the schedule. Maybe the league should relegate teams to lower leagues so all the teams are always super duper good. Still leaves a pretty short list of 12-5 QB's in the last 17 but why keep score or track of records if they don't mean shit because Superb-Owl Chompion Trent Dilfer didn't do things as pretty as you liked.

You seem not to understand the point which is that a lot of things go into a QB’s success. Trent dilfer was not a good QB. But he found himself on the right team at the right time. Ditto Brad Johnson. Would you give Dilfer a giant contract after the Super Bowl? After all, he just won the SB! Your logic says “yes” though you know that would be idiotic.

You are saying Pickett must be good due to his record. I’m saying “Steelers getting good D and a lot of lucky bounces propelled that record.”

They are currently 30th in the league in defensive yards allowed per game, I would not call that playing good D. The stains sure, but not our D.

The Steelers D generates a lot of sacks and turnovers. Splash plays that make it difficult to score. They are too TO reliant. But if you look at points allowed Steelers d is great.

[Kodiak.]

That's when I say, yeah Austin ain't all that, wish they would have offered the position to B.

For like the 100th time, Austin is DC in title only.

Tomlin runs the defense, and has been for the last 4-5 years. That's why Flores was never getting the job.

[jmacinwbp]

That's when I say, yeah Austin ain't all that, wish they would have offered the position to B.

For like the 100th time, Austin is DC in title only.

Tomlin runs the defense, and has been for the last 4-5 years. That's why Flores was never getting the job.

Even as a defensive"consultant" Tomlin respected Flores enough to allow him to add wrinkles to each defensive gameplan, tailored for what he saw while analyzing the opposition team's film.

I wouldn't care if Tomlin was making some game time calls, and even giving the final ok on the defensive gameplans, as long as Flores was there to influence things enough to make their schemes less predictable, and tailored to maximize the play of their star players.

But if your point is that Flores didn't want any part of that type of collaboration, then I'd agree he wasn't going to accept it. Still doesn't stop me from bringing up Flores as a dig toward phuns fans, especially since their D has sucked since he left Miami.

[tbsteel]

Had an early pick on a terrible screen play.

This dude f'n battled.

Down 14 points with 4+ minutes left in the game on the road against one of the top teams in the league, and the dude was the best player on the field at the end. Marches his team right down the field for 2 TDs and converts a 2 pointer and they take the win. 327 passing yards and 28 points.

That's a real fourth quarter comeback. Not some "we're technically down 3 points and our defense doesn't give up a single point in 15 minutes" KP special.

Give me that dude 100 times out of a 100 over Barbie's bitch.

[Orangesteel]

I’m high on Levis. He’s going to get better and his tools are really good.

I was super impressed tonight with the variety of passes he can throw. Super strong arm but man some really damn good touch on some tough passes in small windows.

I think TEN nailed that pick. Get him a few more weapons and he looks like the next guy for them.

And we have Kenny…

[Dan Smith--BYU]

Titans are closer to a SB than the Steelers.

Also remember that Vrabel>Tomlin.

[Stillchest]

I’m high on Levis. He’s going to get better and his tools are really good.

I was super impressed tonight with the variety of passes he can throw. Super strong arm but man some really damn good touch on some tough passes in small windows.

I think TEN nailed that pick. Get him a few more weapons and he looks like the next guy for them.

And we have Kenny…

Such an exhausting topic.

Yes, Kenny sucks along with most of his teammates and coaches.

Try to remember, Art II doesn’t give a fuck about winning championships, but values being a beacon of stability most of all.

This should help halt expectations and maybe not give a fuck about the NFL, which could open up new and constructive avenues for us all.

[Steelperch]

Will Levis
Jake Browning
Tommy Devito
Sam Howell
Baker Mayfield
Josh Dobbs
Gardner Minshew
Retired Joe Flacco

These are the QBs this board has honest debates about whether or not they are better than Kenny Pickett. Our last 1st round QB we had to debate whether he was better than Rivers, Manning, Brees, Brady etc…. Now we’re arguing whether or not Pickett is better than some random backup, a retired guy, or the worst starter in the league.

Your expectation for our first round pick at QB should be having him in the conversation with elites like Mahomes, Burrow and Purdy. Not a bunch of bums. If you have to debate his spot in the pecking order vs other bums, then just admit he’s a bum and move on.

[Ice]

My gorilla and football emojis seem to be malfunctioning, but THIS^^^^^

[jeemie]

That was an impressive win by the Titans last night.

The AFC truly is wide the fuck open right now. I have no idea which of the top teams from there make the Super Bowl.

So now the top two competitors for the Lombardi now are the Cowboys and the 49ers.

Who if either of them win, it will be their…wait for it…6th Lombardi, tying the Steelers and the Patriots.

Maybe THAT will fucking wake the Steelers up?

[K_C_]

My Dolphins friends are freaking out.

Tua might be in concussion protocols (I'm shocked.)

.....and they finish with a suddenly tough Jets team, then....wait for it.....the Cowboys, Ravens and Bills.

Phins fans are shitting themselves.

[jebrick]

I’m high on Levis. He’s going to get better and his tools are really good.

I was super impressed tonight with the variety of passes he can throw. Super strong arm but man some really damn good touch on some tough passes in small windows.

I think TEN nailed that pick. Get him a few more weapons and he looks like the next guy for them.

And we have Kenny…

We have to see the offseason for Levis. I agree with B2B on the Farve comparison for Levis. He is a gunslinger with a big arm but makes very questionable decisions. See if they can improve his mechanics in the offseason before crowning him.

[jeemie]

Wide open AFC and Mike Tomlin saddled us with another year of this inept offensive scheme.

He should be fired for that alone.

[jeemie]

My Dolphins friends are freaking out.

Tua might be in concussion protocols (I'm shocked.)

.....and they finish with a suddenly tough Jets team, then....wait for it.....the Cowboys, Ravens and Bills.

Phins fans are shitting themselves.

How soon can Rodgers possibly return?

[Jobu]

Will Levis
Jake Browning
Tommy Devito
Sam Howell
Baker Mayfield
Josh Dobbs
Gardner Minshew
Retired Joe Flacco

These are the QBs this board has honest debates about whether or not they are better than Kenny Pickett. Our last 1st round QB we had to debate whether he was better than Rivers, Manning, Brees, Brady etc…. Now we’re arguing whether or not Pickett is better than some random backup, a retired guy, or the worst starter in the league.

Your expectation for our first round pick at QB should be having him in the conversation with elites like Mahomes, Burrow and Purdy. Not a bunch of bums. If you have to debate his spot in the pecking order vs other bums, then just admit he’s a bum and move on.

Ouch!

[Jobu]

That was an impressive win by the Titans last night.

The AFC truly is wide the fuck open right now. I have no idea which of the top teams from there make the Super Bowl.

So now the top two competitors for the Lombardi now are the Cowboys and the 49ers.

Who if either of them win, it will be their…wait for it…6th Lombardi, tying the Steelers and the Patriots.

Maybe THAT will fucking wake the Steelers up?

I doubt there’s a single player on the team that gives a fuck about that.