OT: Belichek denied HOF

[Thrillsseeker]

He's a cheater. He's lucky he's even eligible.

Buahahahahhaha at that cheating fuck!

[Ice]

I’ve been involved for 5 years with an alternative HOF that goes through all the voting, both of old classes and of present day classes, using the current rules.

There is a ton of pressure extertednto try and get backlogged candidates voted in so there aren’t a big pile of should-be-HOFers getting left out. So some people vote strategically. They purposely vote for guys who have been waiting a long ass time, rightly figuring Belichick will get in soon enough, but the old deserving guys might only have this chance

There’s absolutely nothing that says he has to be a first ballot HOFer, even if you and I agree he should be. This is not like his only chance to get in and it failed-that would be a completely different argument.

Okay, between the players on the edge of losing eligibility, and what I just heard about them changing the rules (this year or last? Recently) so coaches only have to wait a year vs. 5 for players, I agree. Chuck Noll waited five. Vince Lombardi, Bill Walsh and Shula waited 5 and even after that weren't first ballot.

If I had a list of players close to losing eligibility that deserved it planned out, and the HOF changed the rules, I'd stick with my list.

Think how we all feel about LC Greenwood. You'd rather another fanbase's equivalent of that guy gets perma-screwed just to put Bellichick in "first ballot?"

I've totally changed my tune on this.

They put Robert Kraft up as a contributor.

I don't think any of these "strategies" to get long waiting guys in played any part here. It's purely political and that's what the leaked stories on this tell us, as well.

You had some bitter resentful asshole Bill Polian lead the way nominally because of Spygate or any other bullshit, but really just because Belichick's Patriots routinely kicked his ass. Stole a Super Bowl from him when he was in Buffalo, and then repeatedly shut down his basic bitch Peyton Manning led Colts in the '00's.

Did mention in a post earlier in the thread that there was possible Kraft vs. Bellichick pettiness going on, with Kraft maybe using Polian as a catspaw. Influential billionaires don't make good enemies.

Regardless, getting rid of this coach/contributor loophole, at the least, should happen. The players deserve the most possible chances to make it. Again, think of the Hines Wards (going through the process of getting screwed presently) and LC Greenwoods (already permanently screwed) of the world.

[CKSteeler]

Okay, between the players on the edge of losing eligibility, and what I just heard about them changing the rules (this year or last? Recently) so coaches only have to wait a year vs. 5 for players, I agree. Chuck Noll waited five. Vince Lombardi, Bill Walsh and Shula waited 5 and even after that weren't first ballot.

If I had a list of players close to losing eligibility that deserved it planned out, and the HOF changed the rules, I'd stick with my list.

Think how we all feel about LC Greenwood. You'd rather another fanbase's equivalent of that guy gets perma-screwed just to put Bellichick in "first ballot?"

I've totally changed my tune on this.

They put Robert Kraft up as a contributor.

I don't think any of these "strategies" to get long waiting guys in played any part here. It's purely political and that's what the leaked stories on this tell us, as well.

You had some bitter resentful asshole Bill Polian lead the way nominally because of Spygate or any other bullshit, but really just because Belichick's Patriots routinely kicked his ass. Stole a Super Bowl from him when he was in Buffalo, and then repeatedly shut down his basic bitch Peyton Manning led Colts in the '00's.

Did mention in a post earlier in the thread that there was possible Kraft vs. Bellichick pettiness going on, with Kraft maybe using Polian as a catspaw. Influential billionaires don't make good enemies.

Regardless, getting rid of this coach/contributor loophole, at the least, should happen. The players deserve the most possible chances to make it. Again, think of the Hines Wards (going through the process of getting screwed presently) and LC Greenwoods (already permanently screwed) of the world.

That Polian went out of his way to defend Kraft - at least allegedly - and denigrate Bill tells me that there was a high chance of fuckery going on there.

I don't see any reason players/contributors should be in the same pool as players. I don't like a lot of the rules with the voting. I don't even see the inherent need to always pick 5 or limit it to 5 in some years etc. The voters themselves are the ones who made the whole "first ballot" a thing. A distinction within a distinguished class of people.

And I'd agree in most cases I'd favor the player who put their body on the line and may have a more limited window., But Belichick is in a league of his own as far as cases go. The only player who has a case like him is frankly Brady himself.

[Ice]

For my money, he can wait as long as Noll, Walsh, Shula and Lombardi did, at least, and so can Kraft, and they can go ahead and not just close that loophole, but tighten it, maybe something like one coach/contributor every two or three years. There are 32 coaches every season, and 32 owners, who only change when they sell or die. Just counting 53 man rosters, you have 1696 players a year. Let HOF selection numbers reflect that.

[Boukman]

Though the rules have changed, he'll get in soon. Why do we, as Steelers fans, care if he does so on the first ballot or not?

[6Trophies]

A reminder...

Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart
Sept 8, 2015
https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/i ... iots-apart

His bosses were furious. Roger Goodell knew it. So on April 1, 2008, the NFL commissioner convened an emergency session of the league's spring meeting at The Breakers hotel in Palm Beach, Florida. Attendance was limited to each team's owner and head coach. A palpable anger and frustration had rumbled inside club front offices since the opening Sunday of the 2007 season. During the first half of the New England Patriots' game against the New York Jets at Giants Stadium, a 26-year-old Patriots video assistant named Matt Estrella had been caught on the sideline, illegally videotaping Jets coaches' defensive signals, beginning the scandal known as Spygate.

Deflategate is seen by some owners as a "makeup call" over Spygate.
From 2000 to 2007, the Patriots videotaped the signals of opposing coaches in 40 games.
Goodell's handling of Deflategate turned around owners still simmering over Spygate; some say he is now more secure in his job.

Behind closed doors, Goodell addressed what he called "the elephant in the room" and, according to sources at the meeting, turned over the floor to Robert Kraft. Then 66, the billionaire Patriots owner stood and apologized for the damage his team had done to the league and the public's confidence in pro football. Kraft talked about the deep respect he had for his 31 fellow owners and their shared interest in protecting the NFL's shield. Witnesses would later say Kraft's remarks were heartfelt, his demeanor chastened. For a moment, he seemed to well up.

Then the Patriots' coach, Bill Belichick, the cheating program's mastermind, spoke. He said he had merely misinterpreted a league rule, explaining that he thought it was legal to videotape opposing teams' signals as long as the material wasn't used in real time. Few in the room bought it. Belichick said he had made a mistake -- "my mistake."

Now it was Goodell's turn. The league office lifer, then 49 years old, had been commissioner just 18 months, promoted, in part, because of Kraft's support. His audience wanted to know why he had managed his first crisis in a manner at once hasty and strangely secretive. Goodell had imposed a $500,000 fine on Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and the loss of a first-round draft pick just four days after league security officials had caught the Patriots and before he'd even sent a team of investigators to Foxborough, Massachusetts. Those investigators hadn't come up empty: Inside a room accessible only to Belichick and a few others, they found a library of scouting material containing videotapes of opponents' signals, with detailed notes matching signals to plays for many teams going back seven seasons. Among them were handwritten diagrams of the defensive signals of the Pittsburgh Steelers, including the notes used in the January 2002 AFC Championship Game won by the Patriots 24-17. Yet almost as quickly as the tapes and notes were found, they were destroyed, on Goodell's orders: League executives stomped the tapes into pieces and shredded the papers inside a Gillette Stadium conference room.

To many owners and coaches, the expediency of the NFL's investigation -- and the Patriots' and Goodell's insistence that no games were tilted by the spying -- seemed dubious. It reminded them of something they had seen before from the league and Patriots: At least two teams had caught New England videotaping their coaches' signals in 2006, yet the league did nothing. Further, NFL competition committee members had, over the years, fielded numerous allegations about New England breaking an array of rules. Still nothing. Now the stakes had gotten much higher: Spygate's unanswered questions and destroyed evidence had managed to seize the attention of a hard-charging U.S. senator, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, who was threatening a congressional investigation. This would put everyone -- players, coaches, owners and the commissioner -- under oath, a prospect that some in that room at The Breakers believed could threaten the foundation of the NFL.

[6Trophies]

Snowplows to spying: Patriots no stranger to controversy

An NFL investigation released May 6 concluded New England Patriots employees likely deflated footballs used in the AFC Championship and that quarterback Tom Brady was probably "at least generally aware" of the rules violations.

Brady was given a four-game suspension, which he appealed.

On July 28, the suspension of Brady for the first four games of the season was upheld by the NFL. The team had been fined $1 million and two draft picks were taken away as punishment for deflating footballs used in the AFC title game.

On Sept. 3, U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman erased Brady's four-game suspension, saying NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell went too far in affirming punishment of the Super Bowl winning quarterback.

The New England Patriots are no strangers to on-field controversies and confirmed cheating.

DEFLATE-GATE

The NFL began investigating what's now known as "Deflategate" after the Patriots defeated the Colts 45-7 on January 18. The Colts complained that several footballs were under-inflated and the NFL confirmed that 11 of the 12 footballs were under the limit. The investigation started as the Patriots were preparing for the Super Bowl - which they won two weeks later.

In a 243-page report, NFL investigator Ted Wells found that Patriots employees violated the league rules covering game balls, and that Brady was "at least generally aware" of the plans to doctor the footballs to his liking. The report found some of Brady's claims were "implausible," adding: "It is unlikely that an equipment assistant and a locker room attendant would deflate game balls without Brady's knowledge and approval." Brady was suspended for four games and the team fined $1 million.

Brady appealed the suspension, which was upheld by the NFL. U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman later vacated the suspension.

But "Deflate-gate" is hardly the first on-field controversy to plague the Patriots, which seems to be solidifying its reputation as the "team America loves to hate."

SPY-GATE

The Patriots were caught videotaping signals before the New York Jets' home opener in 2007. The NFL determined that the team illegally videotaped opponents from 2002 to 2007.

The team was fined $250,000 and lost a first-round draft choice. Coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000, the largest financial penalty ever against a coach.

TUCK-RULE

New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady (12) loses the ball after being brought down by Oakland Raiders' Charles Woodson, while Greg Biekert moves to recover the ball in the fourth quarter of their AFC Division Playoff game in Foxboro, Mass. Saturday night, Jan. 19, 2002. The play was appealed, and the Patriots retained possession. The Patriots went on to win, 16-13, in overtime.

The Raiders recovered and appeared poised to run out the clock and win the game. But the officials invoked the previously obscure "tuck rule," which determined that Tom Brady's arm was moving forward which made the apparent fumble an incomplete pass. The Patriots would go on to win in overtime. They then went on to win the team's first Super Bowl.

SNOWPLOW-HELP

Dec. 12, 1982, Mark Henderson clears snow as referee Bob Frederic watches during an NFL football game between the New England Patriots and Miami Dolphins at Schaefer Stadium in Foxborough, Mass.

Mark Henderson, the stadium snowplow operator who had a felony record as a burglar, cleared a spot on the snowy field field for Pats' kicker Josh Smith, who kicked the game-winning field goal in the fourth quarter against the Miami Dolphins . According to USA Today, Dolphins coach Don Shula later called the incident the "most unfair act" ever in the history of the NFL.

[Dan Smith--BYU]

It's got to be one way or the other.

If he legit won 6 SBs as a HC and 2 as a DC he is a first ballot HOF.

If he is not a HOF because of cheating, then the championships should be vacated.

[db]

Holy moly, I no believe!!

I can’t believe that fucking cheating prick is getting so much sympathy HERE!!

While I completely agree with Drama that the league should make a ruling...... who fucking cares.

The same people that spell his name Belicheat are defending him!?!

He should get in, but he can wait. Longer than Pete Rose for all I care.

His plaque should read the above by 6 Trophies

Right / wrong...... Fuck him who cares

[db]

NFL

Sports Entertainment

Do anything to protect the shield.

We already all have our opinions of HOF players and whether they should be in or not.

We’ll probably have some time to pass for a few years. Why not run some sort of HOF discussion or draft type process with existing HOFs.

Better than defending this asshole.

[Ice]

It's got to be one way or the other.

If he legit won 6 SBs as a HC and 2 as a DC he is a first ballot HOF.

If he is not a HOF because of cheating, then the championships should be vacated.

The HOF and the NFL, which could vacate the championships, and maybe should, are different bodies.

[bradshaw2ben]

You also understand that the Hall of Fame changed the voting rules a few years ago and made it very hard to elect everybody. I think it’s going to be much harder to get first ballot guys elected and even more so for coaches and contributors who are now lumped in with seniors

Like, Bill Belichick has two fists full of Super Bowl rings. You cannot even begin to tell the story of the last 26 years of the NFL without mentioning him. It's not even possible.

There's no contributor or any player who has been waiting who deserved a vote before him. This is absolute insanity and these clownish voters are making a mockery of the institution that has given them any say.

Then you have Bill fucking Polian saying he can't say with 100% certainty whether he voted for him or not.

There isn't anyone besides Tom Brady with a case even on par with Belichick.

Doesn't matter how you feel about him personally. I don't want to hear about the "scandals" particularly deflategate of all things which was pretty obvious nonsense at the time and only made worse with things we've learned since.

https://x.com/dannyparkins/status/20166 ... 4633?s=46

Just as I wrote…

[Ice]

LC Greenwood's name got more mentions on national sports talk today than I can ever remember. Too bad nobody did a little deeper dive into the player they were sort of sneak dissing to praise Bellichick.

Some nice moments between Ben and Willie Colon on FTF.

[Obviously]

Though the rules have changed, he'll get in soon. Why do we, as Steelers fans, care if he does so on the first ballot or not?

Exactly. I only care that L.C. Greenwood gets in.

[Steeldrama]

Though the rules have changed, he'll get in soon. Why do we, as Steelers fans, care if he does so on the first ballot or not?

Exactly. I only care that L.C. Greenwood gets in.

No Doubt

LONG OVERDUE

But why has it taken so long?

Bullshit politics and agendas like we just saw with Belichick (Yes fuck him, but that's NOT the point).

Fat Fuck Peter King saying year after year the Steelers have enough guys in etc etc etc.

The same Peter King that's admitted he doesn't even watch football

So how in FUCK has this clown had a vote and apparently WAY too much influence all these years?

[DumlinBumlinStumlin]

Snowplows to spying: Patriots no stranger to controversy

An NFL investigation released May 6 concluded New England Patriots employees likely deflated footballs used in the AFC Championship and that quarterback Tom Brady was probably "at least generally aware" of the rules violations.

Brady was given a four-game suspension, which he appealed.

On July 28, the suspension of Brady for the first four games of the season was upheld by the NFL. The team had been fined $1 million and two draft picks were taken away as punishment for deflating footballs used in the AFC title game.

On Sept. 3, U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman erased Brady's four-game suspension, saying NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell went too far in affirming punishment of the Super Bowl winning quarterback.

The New England Patriots are no strangers to on-field controversies and confirmed cheating.

DEFLATE-GATE

The NFL began investigating what's now known as "Deflategate" after the Patriots defeated the Colts 45-7 on January 18. The Colts complained that several footballs were under-inflated and the NFL confirmed that 11 of the 12 footballs were under the limit. The investigation started as the Patriots were preparing for the Super Bowl - which they won two weeks later.

In a 243-page report, NFL investigator Ted Wells found that Patriots employees violated the league rules covering game balls, and that Brady was "at least generally aware" of the plans to doctor the footballs to his liking. The report found some of Brady's claims were "implausible," adding: "It is unlikely that an equipment assistant and a locker room attendant would deflate game balls without Brady's knowledge and approval." Brady was suspended for four games and the team fined $1 million.

Brady appealed the suspension, which was upheld by the NFL. U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman later vacated the suspension.

But "Deflate-gate" is hardly the first on-field controversy to plague the Patriots, which seems to be solidifying its reputation as the "team America loves to hate."

SPY-GATE

The Patriots were caught videotaping signals before the New York Jets' home opener in 2007. The NFL determined that the team illegally videotaped opponents from 2002 to 2007.

The team was fined $250,000 and lost a first-round draft choice. Coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000, the largest financial penalty ever against a coach.

TUCK-RULE

New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady (12) loses the ball after being brought down by Oakland Raiders' Charles Woodson, while Greg Biekert moves to recover the ball in the fourth quarter of their AFC Division Playoff game in Foxboro, Mass. Saturday night, Jan. 19, 2002. The play was appealed, and the Patriots retained possession. The Patriots went on to win, 16-13, in overtime.

The Raiders recovered and appeared poised to run out the clock and win the game. But the officials invoked the previously obscure "tuck rule," which determined that Tom Brady's arm was moving forward which made the apparent fumble an incomplete pass. The Patriots would go on to win in overtime. They then went on to win the team's first Super Bowl.

SNOWPLOW-HELP

Dec. 12, 1982, Mark Henderson clears snow as referee Bob Frederic watches during an NFL football game between the New England Patriots and Miami Dolphins at Schaefer Stadium in Foxborough, Mass.

Mark Henderson, the stadium snowplow operator who had a felony record as a burglar, cleared a spot on the snowy field field for Pats' kicker Josh Smith, who kicked the game-winning field goal in the fourth quarter against the Miami Dolphins . According to USA Today, Dolphins coach Don Shula later called the incident the "most unfair act" ever in the history of the NFL.

I might have to fire up my legacy catalog of anti pats media

[Sir Lambert]

Someone mentioned that Chuck Noll had to wait 5 years to be elected into the Hall of Fame. That's not true. He retired from coaching in December 1991. The selection process for the summer of '92 class was well underway at that time and Noll was ineligible that year. The following season, he was selected, and went into the Hall in the summer of '93, just a year and a half after retiring.

At some point after Noll's induction, I think that they changed the rule to require a 5-year wait for coaches. I was unaware that they had changed it back until I read about Belicheat being snubbed this year.

[CKSteeler]

You also understand that the Hall of Fame changed the voting rules a few years ago and made it very hard to elect everybody. I think it’s going to be much harder to get first ballot guys elected and even more so for coaches and contributors who are now lumped in with seniors

Like, Bill Belichick has two fists full of Super Bowl rings. You cannot even begin to tell the story of the last 26 years of the NFL without mentioning him. It's not even possible.

There's no contributor or any player who has been waiting who deserved a vote before him. This is absolute insanity and these clownish voters are making a mockery of the institution that has given them any say.

Then you have Bill fucking Polian saying he can't say with 100% certainty whether he voted for him or not.

There isn't anyone besides Tom Brady with a case even on par with Belichick.

Doesn't matter how you feel about him personally. I don't want to hear about the "scandals" particularly deflategate of all things which was pretty obvious nonsense at the time and only made worse with things we've learned since.

https://x.com/dannyparkins/status/20166 ... 4633?s=46

Just as I wrote…

You notice how he goes out of his way to say he also didn't vote for Kraft?

There were people who voted for Robert Kraft - a guy who only gets in because he hired Belichick - over Belichick himself.

I don't think much needs to be said about any game theory related to voting. There's no real case that any of the people he prioritized over Belichick for sympathy (if we take his article at face value) deserved to be in ahead of him.

[Havoc]

You also understand that the Hall of Fame changed the voting rules a few years ago and made it very hard to elect everybody. I think it’s going to be much harder to get first ballot guys elected and even more so for coaches and contributors who are now lumped in with seniors

Like, Bill Belichick has two fists full of Super Bowl rings. You cannot even begin to tell the story of the last 26 years of the NFL without mentioning him. It's not even possible.

There's no contributor or any player who has been waiting who deserved a vote before him. This is absolute insanity and these clownish voters are making a mockery of the institution that has given them any say.

Then you have Bill fucking Polian saying he can't say with 100% certainty whether he voted for him or not.

There isn't anyone besides Tom Brady with a case even on par with Belichick.

Doesn't matter how you feel about him personally. I don't want to hear about the "scandals" particularly deflategate of all things which was pretty obvious nonsense at the time and only made worse with things we've learned since.

Yes it's insanity.

[jebrick]

I saw an interesting article about one of the people who did not vote for Belichick and it was because he voted for Ken Anderson, LC Greenwood and Roger Craig who he though all should be in and because how the voting is set up felt he had to vote for them.

[R_S]

never forget

[Steeldrama]

I saw an interesting article about one of the people who did not vote for Belichick and it was because he voted for Ken Anderson, LC Greenwood and Roger Craig who he though all should be in and because how the voting is set up felt he had to vote for them.

Ken Anderson or Bill Belichick

[StillerInCT]

He no doubt should have been a first ballot hall of famer. He's arguably the greatest coach of all time.

That said...him being snubbed gives me so much joy so fuck him.

[swissvale72]

Boston talk radio....felger/mazz...have been fun to listen to, cuz they're laughing about this shit too....they're take? Belichick has been an absolute dick to the media who votes for this award, for past 25 years....and he know longer has the leverage, they do.

From our end, although spygatecpenalty was assessed in 2007, wasn't he suspected of stealing patriot signals in 2001...so this shit def affected 6 sb that he won.

Lastly, felger/maz also point out that kraft has been pain in the ass lobbying for votes for himself

Lastly , for real, current rules, if Belichick gets in next year, there goes Tomlin's chances to be first ballot. Hahaha

[jebrick]

I saw an interesting article about one of the people who did not vote for Belichick and it was because he voted for Ken Anderson, LC Greenwood and Roger Craig who he though all should be in and because how the voting is set up felt he had to vote for them.

Ken Anderson or Bill Belichick

This guys's point was that the HOF has the coach and NFL contrubutor categories under the veteran slot which has 3 votes. He says that it should either have it's own slots or be mixed in with the normal HOF players. He said the veteran slots should be for players that SHOULD be in the HOF but are not. i can't argue that Ken Anderson and LC Greenwood SHOULD be in the HOF and their shelf life is limited because of the rules. It only hurts BB ego that he did not get in on the first vote. He will get in.

[R_S]

So a coach is eligible after 1 year? that's very odd. Why would they want guys in the hall that decide to coach again after a year off?



On another note, I never noticed the post counter being active on our profiles again. I feel like it was off. It must be counting posts from 20 years ago, because i should not have more posts that SteelPerch

[bradshaw2ben]

LC Greenwood's name got more mentions on national sports talk today than I can ever remember. Too bad nobody did a little deeper dive into the player they were sort of sneak dissing to praise Bellichick.

Some nice moments between Ben and Willie Colon on FTF.

I am on the fence about Ken Anderson, but if this is what it takes to get Anderson, Greenwood, & Roger Craig into the Hall, then it was worth it.Hey, Bill Walsh didn't go in on his first try, either. No shame in that.

But if I see Robert Kraft inducted before any of the other 4 finalists, I will be furious.

[Ice]

I'm actually pretty surprised at the pro-Bellichick outcry on this particular esteemed website, considering Greenwood could be a permanent casualty of it. I'm with you, though, I'm prepared to be incensed if Kraft gets in and Greenwood does not.

[DumlinBumlinStumlin]

Handjobber also held out. The real world hates cheaters!!

ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports Patriots owner Robert Kraft was not voted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame on the first ballot.

Like Bill Belichick before him, Kraft will be kept out of Canton for at least a year. Unlike Bilichick, it’s not clear that there was a concerted effort to keep Kraft out, though it’s still a puzzling decision by the voters. Kraft bought the team in 1994. Including Sunday’s upcoming game, they have gone on to appear in 11 Super Bowls with six wins under Kraft. A victory over the Seahawks would put New England in sole possession of the league record for Lombardi Trophies, all of which have come under Kraft. New England drafted the greatest quarterback of all time and hired the greatest coach of all time early in Kraft’s tenure as the principal owner. Their dynasty defined football in the 21st century. And yet, neither Kraft nor Belichick is in the Hall of Fame. Curious.

[Steeldrama]

Yeah stands to reason if Belichick not 1st ballot then Kraft should be time stamped as well

Hand job Bob hardly squeaky clean