Kenny Pickett's 1st 17 starts vs....

[Stlcrtn1974]

Kenny Pickett has a passer rating of 76.6 with 3,207 yards, 11 touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 17 games in his first 17 games in his career.

Josh Allen has a passer rating of 70.4 with 3,196 yards, 15 touchdowns and 19 interceptions in 17 games in his first 17 games in his career.

Trevor Lawrence has a passer rating of 71.9 with 3,641 yards, 12 touchdowns and 17 interceptions in 17 games in his first 17 games in his career.

Tua Tagovailoa has a passer rating of 88.8 with 3,285 yards, 20 touchdowns and 11 interceptions in 17 games in his first 17 games in his career.

He is also 10-7. Feel free to look up the others, don't really feel like it.

[Mick]

You can argue whatever you want,

No one is going to change their opinion of Pickett as long as (A) he continues to be one of the least efficient QBs in the league (B) he continues to have Matt Canada, who appears to be on track to finish as the worst Offensive Coordinator in NFL history, as the only OC Pickett’s ever had.

[zeke5123]

It is disingenuous to post those stats without the corresponding rushing stats. When you include those Allen in particular looks a lot better. I’m just his rookie year he rushed for 631 yards and 8 touchdowns. In contrast, Pickett rushed for just 237 yards and 3 TDs.

It is also a bad comp due to their relative ages. For example, Allen is less than two years older than Pickett yet is playing his sixth season. Lawrence TODAY is younger than Pickett. Tua is a few months older.

Pickett should’ve been better compared to all three given that Pickett was by far older and had more development time. Instead, in the case of Allen and Tua they were better and younger. Lawrence was similar but much younger.

Also, it is worth pointing out that both Allen and Lawrence went in the very top of the draft to bad teams whereas Pickett was picked late in the round. It would be likely Pickett’s W/L ranking is better.

[Steelperch]

Better question is how did those young QBs look while growing on the job? Everyone knew Josh Allen was very inexperienced playing against high level competition. He looked lost at times and made mental mistakes but had a massive arm and +++ athleticism. You knew if he got the mental part down he’d be elite because he was showing WOW plays mixed in between the bad ones.

The other two guys had great college stats and tape and led teams to National Championships. Same thing, they showed some rookie struggles, but flashed the high level talent that showed they could play at this level once things settled down around them. All 3 of those guys were 22 years old when they came into the league. Pickett is 25 right now and hasn’t shown anything resembling average QB play yet, let alone good QB play.

What is Kenny’s elite trait? What has he shown flashes of brilliance at in the league? If you dumped him on a great team with better coaching would his accuracy and anticipation improve? Would the arm strength grow? Would he become an elite athlete?

You can play in the NFL without elite traits if your accuracy and anticipation are great. Drew Brees is a good example. Brock Purdy is doing it right now. Kenny is bad with his accuracy and his pocket presence and anticipation are bad. I don’t know how he gets substantially better.

[the-other-burg]

Better question is how did those young QBs look while growing on the job? Everyone knew Josh Allen was very inexperienced playing against high level competition. He looked lost at times and made mental mistakes but had a massive arm and +++ athleticism. You knew if he got the mental part down he’d be elite because he was showing WOW plays mixed in between the bad ones.

The other two guys had great college stats and tape and led teams to National Championships. Same thing, they showed some rookie struggles, but flashed the high level talent that showed they could play at this level once things settled down around them. All 3 of those guys were 22 years old when they came into the league. Pickett is 25 right now and hasn’t shown anything resembling average QB play yet, let alone good QB play.

What is Kenny’s elite trait? What has he shown flashes of brilliance at in the league? If you dumped him on a great team with better coaching would his accuracy and anticipation improve? Would the arm strength grow? Would he become an elite athlete?

You can play in the NFL without elite traits if your accuracy and anticipation are great. Drew Brees is a good example. Brock Purdy is doing it right now. Kenny is bad with his accuracy and his pocket presence and anticipation are bad. I don’t know how he gets substantially better.

Growing on the job has a lot to do with coaching. I'd argue Kenny has regressed from last year, which tells me there's a problem with coaching.

Take a look at the game winning throw last year vs the Ravens. He had good footwork, felt the pocket and made the right decision when and where to scramble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYz6HkASpos

I'd argue his most elite skill isnt his physical traits, but his ability to step up his game when his team needs it most.

Doesnt mean he will survive as a starter, I'm just saying theres some good mixed in with the bad,

[Stosh-67]

If you dumped him on a great team with better coaching would his accuracy and anticipation improve? Would the arm strength grow? Would he become an elite athlete?

I have not given up on Kenny like many on this site.

I can not say he is the guy.
I will give him more time.
I always give young guys more time. Into their 3rd season.

With Ben,
It only took me week 6, Bens 5th game, and only 4th start.........
That is the rare one. The HOFer.

Steelers vs. Cowboys, watching game with my brother, as big a Dallas fan as I am Steelers.

This was the game .....
That i screamed out loud............... "We have ourselves a fucking QB"
That was week 6 vs. Dallas,
Down 20-10 late 3rd quarter..........
Ben completed his last 11 passes for 90 yards and a TD pass, ran once for 9 yards.
Steelers win 24-20.

Yes, hell of a supporting cast of veterans.
Hines, Plax, Randle El, Staley, Bus,
Top OL.....run heavy team. PA passing for the element of surprise in pass plays.
Killer defense......Casey, Smith, Kimo, Farrior, Foote, Porter, Troy,
Perfect spot for a young QB

Hence..........

Kenny could not be in a far different spot.
An OL that is disappointing to say the least, as I had higher hopes for this unit.
Maybe they build on getting Jones in at LT., and a bye week to work Jones, Seumalo, Cole, get Daniels back and Chuck / Moore.
Can anyone remember seeing an OL pull and lead a RB around end.
Do we trap block? Does the center pull?
Do we ever pull a guard and tackle at the same time?
Counter?
What happened to that TE counter in motion, in combo with a pulling guard.

We have straight ahead.
With a RB that lacks vision, burst,
With a #2 that does not get enough touches.
a #3 that is not in the same zip code or state on game days.

But I still do not see the explosion and confidence, decisiveness, with quick execution in this unit that I see while watching other run games.
I could watch some of these teams hand the ball off every single play, all game long. That is how well the plays are designed and executed. Beauty.
I would say a good part of our problem is poor coaching, poor practices, lack of cohesive, repetition, execution in practice.

As far as the passing game.
It is literally a bottom of the barrel NFL passing game.
From scheme, to play design, to routes, to pace and tempo, to timing, to lack of surprise, to precision and execution.
To use of player personnel and the predictable routes we put each individual in.

Robinson runs his routes, in specific locations of the field. Curls to the right, 6-8 yards.

Pickens runs sideline patterns, back shoulder throws.
Austin has been a back shoulder target more than not.
How the hell is the smallest and fastest guy on the team always battling to make 50/50 back shoulder throws. Insanity.
He should not be close contact battling CB's
He'd be running all over the field in KC or Miami. I believe Tyrek runs 6 miles in a game, motion, crossers, etc....Austin had 1 target I'm 37 snaps. Fastest guy on team. In the NFL?

Both Austin and Pickens should be catching several 7-10 yard curls, outs per game..........in setting up plays, deeper shots.
We do not set up plays with plays.

Boykin comes on the field....mostly on run downs / run plays. Do tell. Defenses know this.
Gunner also comes on the field on run downs / run plays.

When DJ is healthy and playing, 90% of his routes are underneath.....5-8 yard range, on come backers.

We will not get flagged for illegals picks or rubs, because we rarely run them.
We do not scheme players open.

The TE's have become non-existent. ....as has the middle of the field. Freak athlete Darnell as #1 te., 46 snaps...2 targets.

Imagine Austin running full speed in motion, right to left, Kenny taking snap with Austin running a moving bubble screen. Kenny pumps that way, while Darnell chips / misses block and steaks deep with the LBs and DB flying towards Austin.

THE U SHAPED OFFENSE IS ALIVE AND WELL.

Run, Run pass.
The surprise pass on first..........that falls incomplete.........almost always turns into run on second ( which everyone on earth knows )
Since we certainly need to get 2nd and 10 ........to a manageable 3rd and 7 or 8.

First and second downs are designed to get to 3rd and 4 or less.
Its a brutal philosophy.
Its not just Canada.
The head coach endorses it.

Kenny is set up to fail.

How would Purdy do in this situation.........without ever seeing what he did in that ideal position he is in.
He is in Bens spot 20 years later.
Great OL, great weapons around him ( better than the Ben rookie Steelers team )
Killer defense that may be better than that Ben rookie team.

I do not think anyone on this forum could have said that Brock Purdy, last pick of the draft,
comes in to the 2022 season on the Pittsburgh Steelers and does what he is doing in SF.

Nope,
NO strong run game.
NO mean and confident OL...with a nasty to it.
NO CMC in the backfield. No quick straight hammer of a RB in Mason, that spells CMC.
Their #3 RB, Elijah Mitchell may be our #1 RB.
NO do it all Debo Samuels,
NO top 3 TE in Kittle.
Little known Aiyuk may be their best WR.
The element of surprise is "always" alive with that offense.

And most importantly a Composer putting it all together in Shanahan.

Switch QBs......
and I guarantee Kenny is looking pretty good.

Drop Purdy into the middle of the cluster fuck offense and scheme we have....and Lil Brock is probably on the IR by now.

Anyway.

I do not think this team, led by Tomlin, will ever develop and offense like SF, Miami, Buffalo, Detroit, KC, Philly, etc.
I do not see Tomlin ever handing over the reigns to an offensive mind of the 2020's NFL.

With the PS mentality under Tomlin, is the hope to add another OL early in the draft, probably a center.
Add some offensive weapons. A WR , a RB that can take it to the house......
But most importantly, an OC that does not have the Tomlin mentality drilled into him.

I do believe Kenny has a positives.
He seems like he is a student of the game, studies, game tapes.
Takes practice seriously. Works with his targets.
Will add some weight and strength each year.
Likable, not arrogant.
Has support of his teammates.
Knows he has soo much to learn and grow.
Has shown the ability to lead come from behind wins, has excelled in the 4th quarter in most of his wins.

He is just in such a bad place on this current team with this current staff.

Go Steelers.

[yygy]

That’s about what I’d expect. My guess is if you looked at 40-50 years of the same data Kenny would be above average through his first starts. I mean, let’s face it there have been some atrociously bad rookie qb seasons.

Also like stosh points it’s not even fair to compare Kenny to Ben’s first starts.

Whisenhunt vs Canada is space shuttle vs golf cart. They had a cream your jeans level center and left side OL, best running game in the league, legit dual threat on the outside with a HOFer.

BTW Ben’s stats were 92.4 QBR, 20tds, 11 INT through 16

[Stosh-67]

That’s about what I’d expect. My guess is if you looked at 40-50 years of the same data Kenny would be above average through his first starts. I mean, let’s face it there have been some atrociously bad rookie qb seasons.

Also like stosh points it’s not even fair to compare Kenny to Ben’s first starts.

Whisenhunt vs Canada is space shuttle vs golf cart. They had a cream your jeans level center and left side OL, best running game in the league, legit dual threat on the outside with a HOFer.

BTW Ben’s stats were 92.4 QBR, 20tds, 11 INT through 16

And he did all that while throwing for less that 200 yards in 10 of his first 17, I believe.
Efficiency built with game plan, philosophy, and play calling

[Kodiak.]

Whisenhunt vs Canada is space shuttle vs golf cart. They had a cream your jeans level center and left side OL, best running game in the league, legit dual threat on the outside with a HOFer.

BTW Ben’s stats were 92.4 QBR, 20tds, 11 INT through 16

Ben isn't given enough credit for making that work. That team and offense looked like it needed blowing up at the end of 2003, and that with a far more competent QB in Maddox. Maybe the truth was somewhere between 10-5-1 in 2002 and 6-10 in 2003, but that was not a "talented team, trending up" prior to the arrival of one Benjamin Todd Roethlisberger.

If Ben was the same level as Pickett, that 2004 team probably struggles to be .500. They were, again, 6-10 the year before with a far better and more experienced QB than PIckett. And, by the way, Maddox stats in 2003 were Kenny-esque...

[yygy]

Whisenhunt vs Canada is space shuttle vs golf cart. They had a cream your jeans level center and left side OL, best running game in the league, legit dual threat on the outside with a HOFer.

BTW Ben’s stats were 92.4 QBR, 20tds, 11 INT through 16

Ben isn't given enough credit for making that work. That team and offense looked like it needed blowing up at the end of 2003, and that with a far more competent QB in Maddox. Maybe the truth was somewhere between 10-5-1 in 2002 and 6-10 in 2003, but that was not a "talented team, trending up" prior to the arrival of one Benjamin Todd Roethlisberger.

If Ben was the same level as Pickett, that 2004 team probably struggles to be .500. They were, again, 6-10 the year before with a far better and more experienced QB than PIckett. And, by the way, Maddox stats in 2003 were Kenny-esque...

That team was loaded. The real difference between then and now is QB was the LAST piece that team needed whereas QB is the FIRST piece they’re doing this time

But Colbert had a better feel than cowher or Tomlin ever did. Tomlin wanted a vet. He wanted jacoby Brisset or fill in the blank. So damn right I’m glad when Kenny takes the field

[Kodiak.]

That team was loaded.

Sure they were. That's why they were 6-10 in 2003, after a bizarre playoff game the year before alternating between embarassing and amazing.

That team was not good....a very typical mediocre Tomlin-type team....until they got a special player at QB.

[yygy]

That team was loaded.

Sure they were. That's why they were 6-10 in 2003, after a bizarre playoff game the year before alternating between embarassing and amazing.

That team was not good....a very typical mediocre Tomlin-type team....until they got a special player at QB.

So Ben takes over they run the table all the way to the AFCCG and win the SB the next year. And it was all due to Ben?

Man I’m going to call into Footballin and tell Ben your theory. You gonna make Big Ben blush!

[bradshaw2ben]

Better question is how did those young QBs look while growing on the job? Everyone knew Josh Allen was very inexperienced playing against high level competition. He looked lost at times and made mental mistakes but had a massive arm and +++ athleticism. You knew if he got the mental part down he’d be elite because he was showing WOW plays mixed in between the bad ones.

The other two guys had great college stats and tape and led teams to National Championships. Same thing, they showed some rookie struggles, but flashed the high level talent that showed they could play at this level once things settled down around them. All 3 of those guys were 22 years old when they came into the league. Pickett is 25 right now and hasn’t shown anything resembling average QB play yet, let alone good QB play.

What is Kenny’s elite trait? What has he shown flashes of brilliance at in the league? If you dumped him on a great team with better coaching would his accuracy and anticipation improve? Would the arm strength grow? Would he become an elite athlete?

You can play in the NFL without elite traits if your accuracy and anticipation are great. Drew Brees is a good example. Brock Purdy is doing it right now. Kenny is bad with his accuracy and his pocket presence and anticipation are bad. I don’t know how he gets substantially better.

Growing on the job has a lot to do with coaching. I'd argue Kenny has regressed from last year, which tells me there's a problem with coaching.

Take a look at the game winning throw last year vs the Ravens. He had good footwork, felt the pocket and made the right decision when and where to scramble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYz6HkASpos

I'd argue his most elite skill isnt his physical traits, but his ability to step up his game when his team needs it most.

Doesnt mean he will survive as a starter, I'm just saying theres some good mixed in with the bad,

Whifh is why I say he's going to be a great backup someday. Your starter gets knocked out of the game and you need a score late... you'd feel some level of confidence. You might not want him starting more than a few games in a row but there would be worse backup options as far as coming in cold to a big spot.

[bradshaw2ben]

Tommy Maddox's stats in his first 17 Steelers games are probably what could be expected of Kenny had he played in a better offense for his first 17. Would that be good enough?

[zeke5123]

Better question is how did those young QBs look while growing on the job? Everyone knew Josh Allen was very inexperienced playing against high level competition. He looked lost at times and made mental mistakes but had a massive arm and +++ athleticism. You knew if he got the mental part down he’d be elite because he was showing WOW plays mixed in between the bad ones.

The other two guys had great college stats and tape and led teams to National Championships. Same thing, they showed some rookie struggles, but flashed the high level talent that showed they could play at this level once things settled down around them. All 3 of those guys were 22 years old when they came into the league. Pickett is 25 right now and hasn’t shown anything resembling average QB play yet, let alone good QB play.

What is Kenny’s elite trait? What has he shown flashes of brilliance at in the league? If you dumped him on a great team with better coaching would his accuracy and anticipation improve? Would the arm strength grow? Would he become an elite athlete?

You can play in the NFL without elite traits if your accuracy and anticipation are great. Drew Brees is a good example. Brock Purdy is doing it right now. Kenny is bad with his accuracy and his pocket presence and anticipation are bad. I don’t know how he gets substantially better.

Growing on the job has a lot to do with coaching. I'd argue Kenny has regressed from last year, which tells me there's a problem with coaching.

Take a look at the game winning throw last year vs the Ravens. He had good footwork, felt the pocket and made the right decision when and where to scramble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYz6HkASpos

I'd argue his most elite skill isnt his physical traits, but his ability to step up his game when his team needs it most.

Doesnt mean he will survive as a starter, I'm just saying theres some good mixed in with the bad,

Whifh is why I say he's going to be a great backup someday. Your starter gets knocked out of the game and you need a score late... you'd feel some level of confidence. You might not want him starting more than a few games in a row but there would be worse backup options as far as coming in cold to a big spot.

Fitzpatrick is another example of a guy who you dont really want to be your starter of the course of the year, but if you put him in a game or two you had a shot.

[Kodiak.]

That team was loaded.

Sure they were. That's why they were 6-10 in 2003, after a bizarre playoff game the year before alternating between embarassing and amazing.

That team was not good....a very typical mediocre Tomlin-type team....until they got a special player at QB.

So Ben takes over they run the table all the way to the AFCCG and win the SB the next year. And it was all due to Ben?

Man I’m going to call into Footballin and tell Ben your theory. You gonna make Big Ben blush!

Yeah, I think they are one-and-done, at best, without Ben. The prior two years certainly back that up.

Again, in 2 years they won 17 games with Tommy Maddox. In 2 years, Ben was 27-4 with a SB ring. But, sure, they get similar results with Tommy Maddox. LMFAO.