Steelers at Patriots: Famous Last Words

[SteelyourFace]

I think the copy and paste part of the argument is fair, especially on offense. I think that’s exactly what they did, which is criminal.

I would not write that if I did not believe it. I believe it. And I think "criminal" is an apt description of the Steelers offensive and defensive game plans.

Mikey T is always preaching about situational football. Oh how the irony burns

[Orangesteel]

I think the copy and paste part of the argument is fair, especially on offense. I think that’s exactly what they did, which is criminal.

I would not write that if I did not believe it. I believe it. And I think "criminal" is an apt description of the Steelers offensive and defensive game plans.

Mikey T is always preaching about situational football. Oh how the irony burns

He doesn’t know what situational football is. Kicking a FG down 20-0 to start the 3rd Quarter on the road against the Pats from the 1 yard line?

After multiple teams yesterday came back and won down 2 scores.

Situational football?

You can’t make this shit up.

[Obviously]

Tell you what. Take the time to make a long opinion piece about the game, and make it entertaining from a writing stand point. Make it a good read. It's called quality writing. Go ahead and try it.

Then we can all mock and ridicule you from a writing standpoint, and ignore the content.

I didn't ignore the content, but go ahead and delude yourself with thinking I did. I generally disagree with B2B on his analysis because he goes to great lengths to absolve Ben and Tomlin, two of his favorites mind you, of most of the culpability in any and all shitshows but on by the black and gold. He did it in the OP.

Being a "good read" and "entertaining" or "quality writing" is YOUR opinion, not gospel. People can have differing opinions or at least they can as of today, thankfully.

Sorry if my criticism of invoking unneeded references offends you, but I just don't care for all of that in a football piece.

[bradshaw2ben]

Frankly, the last words reference was for my own sake... couldn't bring myself to write it without some dark humor.

[COR-TEN]

Hey, Obviously.....your avatar sucks....

Just kidding

[bradshaw2ben]

I think the copy and paste part of the argument is fair, especially on offense. I think that’s exactly what they did, which is criminal.

I would not write that if I did not believe it. I believe it. And I think "criminal" is an apt description of the Steelers offensive and defensive game plans.

Mikey T is always preaching about situational football. Oh how the irony burns

The defensive calls and scheme were 95% correct. I'm not sure why you think they were cut and paste. They manned up RBs who have always killed us with two of the fastest/best cover ILBs you'll find. Only the Gordon TD immediately following the trick play was a blown coverage.

This was not the same plan from last year. It worked less well because the Pats worked the rub routes to perfection and the DL other than Hargrave got dominated for most of the game.

[COR-TEN]

Being a "good read" and "entertaining" or "quality writing" is YOUR opinion, not gospel. People can have differing opinions or at least they can as of today, thankfully.

I know you didn't completely ignore the content, but I was exaggerating to make a point. You saw what you wanted to see, and focused on his style. Give the guy a break. He took the time to try and make it more than just dry analysis. Swiss does that all the time and people seem to like it. But you commented and mocked it twice. But wtf do I care. Carry on. . .

[bradshaw2ben]

Tell you what. Take the time to make a long opinion piece about the game, and make it entertaining from a writing stand point. Make it a good read. It's called quality writing. Go ahead and try it.

Then we can all mock and ridicule you from a writing standpoint, and ignore the content.

I didn't ignore the content, but go ahead and delude yourself with thinking I did. I generally disagree with B2B on his analysis because he goes to great lengths to absolve Ben and Tomlin, two of his favorites mind you, of most of the culpability in any and all shitshows but on by the black and gold. He did it in the OP.

Being a "good read" and "entertaining" or "quality writing" is YOUR opinion, not gospel. People can have differing opinions or at least they can as of today, thankfully.

Sorry if my criticism of invoking unneeded references offends you, but I just don't care for all of that in a football piece.

Dude, you said I absolved Tomlin in an article where I spent two or three paragraphs devoted to the FG, the 4th and short, et al and the entire theme is about how the team played like they were scared and dead. You are blind to your own bias.

[Orangesteel]

He ripped the coaches in the article you noodnik. Read the damn thing.

[SteelyourFace]

I think the copy and paste part of the argument is fair, especially on offense. I think that’s exactly what they did, which is criminal.

I would not write that if I did not believe it. I believe it. And I think "criminal" is an apt description of the Steelers offensive and defensive game plans.

Mikey T is always preaching about situational football. Oh how the irony burns

The defensive calls and scheme were 95% correct. I'm not sure why you think they were cut and paste. They manned up RBs who have always killed us with two of the fastest/best cover ILBs you'll find. Only the Gordon TD immediately following the trick play was a blown coverage.

This was not the same plan from last year. It worked less well because the Pats worked the rub routes to perfection and the DL other than Hargrave got dominated for most of the game.

we will have to agree to disagree about the defense. The Steelers used in man coverage effectively last year in Pittsburgh. The patriots expected to get a heavy dose of man coverage last night. The Steelers gave the patriots exactly what they expected. A heavy dose of man coverage. What did New England do? Did they run the same plays they ran last season in Pittsburgh? No. They called plays specifically designed to beat man coverage. Did Keith "the dunce" Butler mix it up? No, not really and certainly not enough. The patriots planned for a cut and paste approach and they got it.

I do not even think the individual defenders played poorly. I think the coaches put the players at a disadvantage in the patriots took every advantage. Do you think the patriots coaching staff laughed their asses off for about an hour after the game? I do.

[Havoc]

Thanks for the write up, B2B

Great stuff brother!

[bradshaw2ben]

No good deed goes unpunished. My second favorite saying after 'Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.'

[SteelyourFace]

No good deed goes unpunished. My second favorite saying after 'Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.'

Mine is more like an intermittently working clock. Accordingly, I am hardly ever right about anything. By the way, I thought your references were a bit obscure but I appreciated the attempt at dark humor.

[jewelsongs]

No good deed goes unpunished. My second favorite saying after 'Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.'

Mine is "Eventually, all fish smell bad"

[Legacy User]

Very well written, I am assuming the flowery prose was designed to help you forget what a shit show that was last night. I am almost resigned to stop watching our Steelers until week 3 as the only time I can remember them being prepared was against Miami in 2006 defending our SB Title. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to have been a problem now since Coach Noll left. I attribute the strong starts of Cowhers early years to being Nolls players. If this is the case, I have to believe that it is by design probably to ease our players into the season to ensure they are around at the end of the season.

Maybe by week three this team will be prepared.

Of course that wont stop me from watching next week just so I can get pissed again.

[bradshaw2ben]

we will have to agree to disagree about the defense. The Steelers used in man coverage effectively last year in Pittsburgh. The patriots expected to get a heavy dose of man coverage last night. The Steelers gave the patriots exactly what they expected. A heavy dose of man coverage. What did New England do? Did they run the same plays they ran last season in Pittsburgh? No. They called plays specifically designed to beat man coverage. Did Keith "the dunce" Butler mix it up? No, not really and certainly not enough. The patriots planned for a cut and paste approach and they got it.

I do not even think the individual defenders played poorly. I think the coaches put the players at a disadvantage in the patriots took every advantage. Do you think the patriots coaching staff laughed their asses off for about an hour after the game? I do.

They started with different personnel than in last game, didn't expect the same. Then the Steelers adjusted out of that with some different looks, so Pats started working the ball downfield more. Then the defense knew their offense wasn't cutting it and were trying to anticipate more and looking for picks but got burned. Then they got beaten down and the game got out of hand.

What it is that we're doing on defense that is keeping us from creating turnovers is a complete mystery. I mean, NE never turns it over... but here's the record of Tomlin's Steelers and created turnovers:

When creating 2 or more Takeaways: 69-12
When creating 1 takeaway: 39-22-1
When creating zero takeaways: 17-33

[jebrick]

Very well written, I am assuming the flowery prose was designed to help you forget what a shit show that was last night. I am almost resigned to stop watching our Steelers until week 3 as the only time I can remember them being prepared was against Miami in 2006 defending our SB Title. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to have been a problem now since Coach Noll left. I attribute the strong starts of Cowhers early years to being Nolls players. If this is the case, I have to believe that it is by design probably to ease our players into the season to ensure they are around at the end of the season.

Maybe by week three this team will be prepared.

Of course that wont stop me from watching next week just so I can get pissed again.

blame the CBA. It limits practice. Tomlin still does not get them quite ready. Also Munch was a big part of game planning and now he is in Denver.

[SteelyourFace]

we will have to agree to disagree about the defense. The Steelers used in man coverage effectively last year in Pittsburgh. The patriots expected to get a heavy dose of man coverage last night. The Steelers gave the patriots exactly what they expected. A heavy dose of man coverage. What did New England do? Did they run the same plays they ran last season in Pittsburgh? No. They called plays specifically designed to beat man coverage. Did Keith "the dunce" Butler mix it up? No, not really and certainly not enough. The patriots planned for a cut and paste approach and they got it.

I do not even think the individual defenders played poorly. I think the coaches put the players at a disadvantage in the patriots took every advantage. Do you think the patriots coaching staff laughed their asses off for about an hour after the game? I do.

They started with different personnel than in last game, didn't expect the same. Then the Steelers adjusted out of that with some different looks, so Pats started working the ball downfield more. Then the defense knew their offense wasn't cutting it and were trying to anticipate more and looking for picks but got burned. Then they got beaten down and the game got out of hand.

What it is that we're doing on defense that is keeping us from creating turnovers is a complete mystery. I mean, NE never turns it over... but here's the record of Tomlin's Steelers and created turnovers:

When creating 2 or more Takeaways: 69-12
When creating 1 takeaway: 39-22-1
When creating zero takeaways: 17-33

turnovers/takeaways are ALWAYS a key factor in winning losing, I fully agree. that is a very curious stat you listed. is Tomlin an outlier in that regard? Does he have a greater than usual win/loss disparity depending on turnovers?? and I see the stat uses turnovers "created" and not turnover ratio. could it be that in games we didnt create turnovers we also coughed the ball up??

NE doesnt turn the ball over due to their maddening attention to detail. scheme guys open, hit them in stride, in space, protect the ball, and know how to get down.

good discussion.

[Obviously]

He ripped the coaches in the article you noodnik. Read the damn thing.

Ah another personal attack. Well obviously you're not a moderator breaking forum rules. I do understand though what a miserable and angry human being you can become in that damp, sodden, rainy area of the country known as Pacific Northwest. Mods, take it easy on him!

[drmalba]

Excellent read B2B.
And thanks for edifying many of us on the dying words of the Comtesse de Vercellis - as dutifully recorded by the young philosopher Rousseau

[Obviously]

Dude, you said I absolved Tomlin in an article where I spent two or three paragraphs devoted to the FG, the 4th and short, et al and the entire theme is about how the team played like they were scared and dead. You are blind to your own bias.

So, coaching may contribute, but it's mainly jimmies and joes.

You can knock the personnel and the coaching, but I'm not sure what else they were supposed to try last night.

last night was a perfect storm for you Tomin haters. It was a (not quite) living embodiment of the worst traits you all think he has all the time. Go ahead and gloat, #FireTomin, you've earned it!

The first two quotes from the article pretty much try to deflect blame from the coaching and Tomlin in particular, unless I'm totally reading it wrong. The third quote tells Tomlin haters to take a victory lap because they're right based on his performance from last night. Basically, Tomlin haters are right this time.

I get it, B2B. You love the guy, always have, and in a way, I admire your defense of him and Ben through thick and thin, but at what point does Tomlin's fuckups constitute the last straw with you? Are you content to continue to watch these fiascos because we're always going to get them with this guy. His welcome in Pittsburgh was worn out a long time ago. Now, his defenders have become absolutely laughable.

[Quixotic]

Or to put it more succinctly (and one could hardly put it less succinctly):

Tomlin: “King me.”
Belichick: “Checkmate.”

[bradshaw2ben]

Excellent read B2B.
And thanks for edifying many of us on the dying words of the Comtesse de Vercellis - as dutifully recorded by the young philosopher Rousseau

She should be the patron saint of this team— a dying lady’s fart fits this offense well.

[stillcajun]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up B.
Well done.


I think BB can take average Jimmies and Joes and turn them into effective solid players.....
And that is the difference from training camp, pre-season, practice and preparation.

dominated by lesser-known but better performing supposed journeymen

.

I would say that BB and MT could cross fields before the kick-off, change hats...........and the Patriots, with lesser-known, less talented players would look like shit, being coached by Tomlin.

Here's the big difference IMO. BB has his team not only work on fundamentals but also things like down/distance recognition, OL keys, etc.
Al Michaels brought up a point about Hightower when he took Samuels down behind the LOS. He said that Hightower told him that BB taught them to key on the way the OL were lined up and were moving versus on the RB or QB and how this allows them to get to their spots faster.

All the talk was how the Steelers upgraded their speed on D and he used the fact of speed and aggressiveness to get them to over commit. The D continually bit on PA and rarely covered a crossing route as WRs and RB ran wide open. They were outschemed, outcoached and outclassed in every facet of the game.

BB uses the offseason to get new guys and rooks up to speed and to implement the basis of the O and D. Every week the staff game plans for each specific team that it will face to take away their strengths.

Tomlin and co. uses the offseason to get in shape, workout and have goal line drills to build up machismo. Game plan is pretty much "we do what we do" This goes a long way to showing why last night was a 33-3 arse whippin.

[SteelyourFace]

Or to put it more succinctly (and one could hardly put it less succinctly):

Tomlin: “King me.”
Belichick: “Checkmate.”

i'm sorely tempted to make this my signature line

[COR-TEN]

Excellent read B2B.
And thanks for edifying many of us on the dying words of the Comtesse de Vercellis - as dutifully recorded by the young philosopher Rousseau

She should be the patron saint of this team— a dying lady’s fart fits this offense well.

That reminds me of Helen. You don't know Helen, but she was my landlord a long while back, and was an older hungarian woman that wore babushkas. And a huge wart on her nose. She would mop up the floors and stairs in the building. I remember her fondly, but she wasn't exactly the most refined human being in the world. She lived next door to me and I saw her frequently. At one point, I was having a conversation with her in the lobby, and she let out the longest, wetest sounding fart you could imagine, and kept talking like nothing happened.

She died of anal cancer. Seriously. What a fucking way to go. Must've been horrendous.

[Tundralag]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up B.
Well done.


I think BB can take average Jimmies and Joes and turn them into effective solid players.....
And that is the difference from training camp, pre-season, practice and preparation.

dominated by lesser-known but better performing supposed journeymen

.

I would say that BB and MT could cross fields before the kick-off, change hats...........and the Patriots, with lesser-known, less talented players would look like shit, being coached by Tomlin.

Here's the big difference IMO. BB has his team not only work on fundamentals but also things like down/distance recognition, OL keys, etc.
Al Michaels brought up a point about Hightower when he took Samuels down behind the LOS. He said that Hightower told him that BB taught them to key on the way the OL were lined up and were moving versus on the RB or QB and how this allows them to get to their spots faster.

All the talk was how the Steelers upgraded their speed on D and he used the fact of speed and aggressiveness to get them to over commit. The D continually bit on PA and rarely covered a crossing route as WRs and RB ran wide open. They were outschemed, outcoached and outclassed in every facet of the game.

BB uses the offseason to get new guys and rooks up to speed and to implement the basis of the O and D. Every week the staff game plans for each specific team that it will face to take away their strengths.

Tomlin and co. uses the offseason to get in shape, workout and have goal line drills to build up machismo. Game plan is pretty much "we do what we do" This goes a long way to showing why last night was a 33-3 arse whippin.

Post of the week!! That is dead ball on.. Brady and Bill had Ben and Mike bent over the table and broke down like a good over and under shotgun while high fiving each other..

[Stallworth16]

Ben revealed in an interview during the week the Steelers offensive mindset. He said the Patriots determine who top 2 threats are and they double them. Ben said they would guess who that would be and try to go to other weapons. The Steelers expected the Pats would double Vance and Juju. (And contain the RBs) Steelers planned to go to Switzer and Moncrief.

I hate to use this cliche but it applies. The Steelers are playing checkers and the Pats are playing chess. The Steelers ability to adjust the game plan on the fly and at halftime remains a weakness.

[COR-TEN]

Ben revealed in an interview during the week the Steelers offensive mindset. He said the Patriots determine who top 2 threats are and they double them. Ben said they would guess who that would be and try to go to other weapons. The Steelers expected the Pats would double Vance and Juju. (And contain the RBs) Steelers planned to go to Switzer and Moncrief.

I hate to use this cliche but it applies. The Steelers are playing checkers and the Pats are playing chess. The Steelers ability to adjust the game plan on the fly and at halftime remains a weakness.

How much input does BR have in developing game plans? Maybe this is what AB was complaining about? Because that sounds like a bunch of horse shit.

[bradshaw2ben]

When creating 2 or more Takeaways: 69-12
When creating 1 takeaway: 39-22-1
When creating zero takeaways: 17-33

turnovers/takeaways are ALWAYS a key factor in winning losing, I fully agree. that is a very curious stat you listed. is Tomlin an outlier in that regard? Does he have a greater than usual win/loss disparity depending on turnovers?? and I see the stat uses turnovers "created" and not turnover ratio. could it be that in games we didnt create turnovers we also coughed the ball up??

NE doesnt turn the ball over due to their maddening attention to detail. scheme guys open, hit them in stride, in space, protect the ball, and know how to get down.

good discussion.

Conversely, here is the Steelers under Tomlin record when turning it over:
2 or more TOs: 38-40-1 .487
1 turnover 50-20 .714
0 turnovers 37-7 .841

Last night could easily have been number 8 in that 38-8. Basically, I look at that and see: it doesn't matter whether the Steelers commit a turnover here and there, it matters far more whether they get takeaways.