Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games

[FortyThree]

It's amazing the hoops people jump through to discredit Mike Tomlin.

Makes me wonder why...

Asinine.

He's a conservative coach. I generally do not like conservative coaches.

It's not that difficult to understand, unless you have an agenda. And we all know you have one, 43

I want the freedom to say I don't like Mike Tomlin if I want to. Just like those who dislike Cowher and Arians.

I'm not saying I don't like Tomlin btw. It's a like/dislike at the same time for me.

Conservative or not it's a results based business and his track record speaks for itself.

In this thread alone we've seen one person say Tomlin is bad because his teams don't blow people out. We've seen someone say they prefer the lesser coach of the Steelers #1 division rival for reasons that are easily debunked.

You can dislike his coaching style. I think he's too conservative at times too.

But to say he's a terrible coach is just wrong. Factually.

Then there's the oh so subtle knocks on his intelligence and his appearance.

I'm not trying to judge people or assume they dislike him for non-football reasons. I'm just speculating that people who go out of their way to look for reasons to hate the guy have ulterior motives of some kind.

Or they're just stupid.

[swissvale72]

It's amazing the hoops people jump through to discredit Mike Tomlin.

Makes me wonder why...

Asinine.

He's a conservative coach. I generally do not like conservative coaches.

It's not that difficult to understand, unless you have an agenda. And we all know you have one, 43

I want the freedom to say I don't like Mike Tomlin if I want to. Just like those who dislike Cowher and Arians.

I'm not saying I don't like Tomlin btw. It's a like/dislike at the same time for me.

Conservative or not it's a results based business and his track record speaks for itself.

In this thread alone we've seen one person say Tomlin is bad because his teams don't blow people out. We've seen someone say they prefer the lesser coach of the Steelers #1 division rival for reasons that are easily debunked.

You can dislike his coaching style. I think he's too conservative at times too.

But to say he's a terrible coach is just wrong. Factually.

Then there's the oh so subtle knocks on his intelligence and his appearance.

I'm not trying to judge people or assume they dislike him for non-football reasons. I'm just speculating that people who go out of their way to look for reasons to hate the guy have ulterior motives of some kind.

Or they're just stupid.

Easily debunked, huh? The fact that John Harbaugh has twice beaten the Belichikian Patriots in Foxboro in the playoffs and nearly did it twice more, whereas Mike Tomlin's Steelers got blown the fuck out in a similar circumstance....and have always wilted when going up against Brady debunks this argument?? Maybe you should have taken a few Logic courses up in Happy Valley.

[Pabst]

In this thread alone we've seen one person say Tomlin is bad because his teams don't blow people out. We've seen someone say they prefer the lesser coach of the Steelers #1 division rival for reasons that are easily debunked.

You can dislike his coaching style. I think he's too conservative at times too.

But to say he's a terrible coach is just wrong. Factually.

Then there's the oh so subtle knocks on his intelligence and his appearance.

I'm not trying to judge people or assume they dislike him for non-football reasons. I'm just speculating that people who go out of their way to look for reasons to hate the guy have ulterior motives of some kind.

Or they're just stupid.

Easily debunked, huh? The fact that John Harbaugh has twice beaten the Belichikian Patriots in Foxboro in the playoffs and nearly did it twice more, whereas Mike Tomlin's Steelers got blown the fuck out in a similar circumstance....and have always wilted when going up against Brady debunks this argument?? Maybe you should have taken a few Logic courses up in Happy Valley.

Yes. He beat the Pats in the playoffs. There is not a single person arguing this. What you're doing is hammering the one point you have and you're ignoring all the other legit criticisms of Harbaugh that several posters have brought up

[swissvale72]

In this thread alone we've seen one person say Tomlin is bad because his teams don't blow people out. We've seen someone say they prefer the lesser coach of the Steelers #1 division rival for reasons that are easily debunked.

You can dislike his coaching style. I think he's too conservative at times too.

But to say he's a terrible coach is just wrong. Factually.

Then there's the oh so subtle knocks on his intelligence and his appearance.

I'm not trying to judge people or assume they dislike him for non-football reasons. I'm just speculating that people who go out of their way to look for reasons to hate the guy have ulterior motives of some kind.

Or they're just stupid.

Easily debunked, huh? The fact that John Harbaugh has twice beaten the Belichikian Patriots in Foxboro in the playoffs and nearly did it twice more, whereas Mike Tomlin's Steelers got blown the fuck out in a similar circumstance....and have always wilted when going up against Brady debunks this argument?? Maybe you should have taken a few Logic courses up in Happy Valley.

Yes. He beat the Pats in the playoffs. There is not a single person arguing this. What you're doing is hammering the one point you have and you're ignoring all the other legit criticisms of Harbaugh that several posters have brought up

Here's the criticisms of Harbaugh that I've seen posted on this OP; perhaps I missed others:
*He's horrid on the road: When it counts most, in the playoffs, Harbaugh is 7-5. In addition to his two, admittedly ballyhooed win in Foxboro, he's also won in Miami, in Nashville when Titans were #1 seed, in Kansas City, and in Denver.
*He's sub-.500 against the Bengals: That would be your critique, Pabst, and certainly legit. Tomlin wins the comp. there.
*He's a swarmy, whiny little fuck: Sorry if I'm not impressed by that criticism, and don't consider it particularly legit.

[Pabst]

Here's the criticisms of Harbaugh that I've seen posted on this OP; perhaps I missed others:
*He's horrid on the road: When it counts most, in the playoffs, Harbaugh is 7-5. In addition to his two, admittedly ballyhooed win in Foxboro, he's also won in Miami, in Nashville when Titans were #1 seed, in Kansas City, and in Denver.
*He's sub-.500 against the Bengals: That would be your critique, Pabst, and certainly legit. Tomlin wins the comp. there.
*He's a swarmy, whiny little fuck: Sorry if I'm not impressed by that criticism, and don't consider it particularly legit.

Damn, that's alot of road playoff games. Maybe if Harbaugh was a better regular season coach his team wouldn't be playing on the road so much in the postseason?
Tomlin has won the AFC North 4 times since 2008. Marvin Lewis 3 times. Harbaugh twice. He's 34-43 on the road in his career.

If you want to trump up his road playoff record, then fine. But you need to acknowledge that his regular season shortcomings are putting him into that tough spot to begin with. And once again, Harbaugh's track record in recent years is not good.

[FortyThree]

Don't forget knocking Tomlin for missing the playoffs twice while Harbaugh has done it nearly twice as many times.

[swissvale72]

Don't forget knocking Tomlin for missing the playoffs twice while Harbaugh has done it nearly twice as many times.

Check again, forty three. From my count, Tomlin has missed playoffs THREE times ('09, '12, '13) and so has Harbaugh ('13, '15, '16). Granted, Harbaugh very likely misses again this year.

Few other things....Tomlin, and I think you would agree with this, has been blessed with a far better QB. Joe Fucco is okay, but Ben is MUCH, MUCH better. I've acknowledged Tomlin's strengths insofar as player relationships. From what I understand, Harbaugh is comparable in that regard. And...just from my own observation....I think Harbaugh is a much better game-day tactitian, far more attention to detail than is Tomlin, much less dumbfuckedness.

[Legacy User]

Don't forget knocking Tomlin for missing the playoffs twice while Harbaugh has done it nearly twice as many times.

Check again, forty three. From my count, Tomlin has missed playoffs THREE times ('09, '12, '13) and so has Harbaugh ('13, '15, '16). Granted, Harbaugh very likely misses again this year.

Few other things....Tomlin, and I think you would agree with this, has been blessed with a far better QB. Joe Fucco is okay, but Ben is MUCH, MUCH better. I've acknowledged Tomlin's strengths insofar as player relationships. From what I understand, Harbaugh is comparable in that regard. And...just from my own observation....I think Harbaugh is a much better game-day tactitian, far more attention to detail than is Tomlin, much less dumbfuckedness.

Flacco played out of his mind in a way he never will again en route to his SB ring. I'd say Harbaugh was pretty blessed that year.

[jeemie]

Don't forget knocking Tomlin for missing the playoffs twice while Harbaugh has done it nearly twice as many times.

Check again, forty three. From my count, Tomlin has missed playoffs THREE times ('09, '12, '13) and so has Harbaugh ('13, '15, '16). Granted, Harbaugh very likely misses again this year.

Few other things....Tomlin, and I think you would agree with this, has been blessed with a far better QB. Joe Fucco is okay, but Ben is MUCH, MUCH better. I've acknowledged Tomlin's strengths insofar as player relationships. From what I understand, Harbaugh is comparable in that regard. And...just from my own observation....I think Harbaugh is a much better game-day tactitian, far more attention to detail than is Tomlin, much less dumbfuckedness.

Flacco played out of his mind in a way he never will again en route to his SB ring. I'd say Harbaugh was pretty blessed that year.

And they don’t even win that year except for one of the worst defended pass plays of all time by Denver, with Rahim Moore the biggest culprit.

[R_S]

Don't forget knocking Tomlin for missing the playoffs twice while Harbaugh has done it nearly twice as many times.

Check again, forty three. From my count, Tomlin has missed playoffs THREE times ('09, '12, '13) and so has Harbaugh ('13, '15, '16). Granted, Harbaugh very likely misses again this year.

Few other things....Tomlin, and I think you would agree with this, has been blessed with a far better QB. Joe Fucco is okay, but Ben is MUCH, MUCH better. I've acknowledged Tomlin's strengths insofar as player relationships. From what I understand, Harbaugh is comparable in that regard. And...just from my own observation....I think Harbaugh is a much better game-day tactitian, far more attention to detail than is Tomlin, much less dumbfuckedness.

Flacco played out of his mind in a way he never will again en route to his SB ring. I'd say Harbaugh was pretty blessed that year.

Or is he pretty cursed the other 85% of his career that he plays mediocre to poor football....

[bradshaw2ben]

Not to mention 4th and forever, where they actually gained about a yard and a half short of forever.

[Pabst]

Few other things....Tomlin, and I think you would agree with this, has been blessed with a far better QB. Joe Fucco is okay, but Ben is MUCH, MUCH better. I've acknowledged Tomlin's strengths insofar as player relationships. From what I understand, Harbaugh is comparable in that regard. And...just from my own observation....I think Harbaugh is a much better game-day tactitian, far more attention to detail than is Tomlin, much less dumbfuckedness.

If we're going to do the "Tomlin has Roethlisberger" angle, then can we also point out that Harbaugh shutting down the Pats may have had something to do with 3 first-ballot HOFers on that defense (as well as Ngata)? None of whom Harbaugh drafted/developed.

[swissvale72]

Few other things....Tomlin, and I think you would agree with this, has been blessed with a far better QB. Joe Fucco is okay, but Ben is MUCH, MUCH better. I've acknowledged Tomlin's strengths insofar as player relationships. From what I understand, Harbaugh is comparable in that regard. And...just from my own observation....I think Harbaugh is a much better game-day tactitian, far more attention to detail than is Tomlin, much less dumbfuckedness.

If we're going to do the "Tomlin has Roethlisberger" angle, then can we also point out that Harbaugh shutting down the Pats may have had something to do with 3 first-ballot HOFers on that defense (as well as Ngata)? None of whom Harbaugh drafted/developed.

If we're going to play that game, then we'll soon be into the Tomlin won the SB with Cowher's team argument.....which I've never supported.

[SteeLori]

Not to mention 4th and forever, where they actually gained about a yard and a half short of forever.

It was the chargers. 4th and 29, and rice got about 27 and maybe a half. They were gifted into the playoffs that season. Played out of their minds in the playoffs but were gifted there.

[FortyThree]

My mistake, I was thinking Tomlin missed playoffs twice.

[Pabst]

If we're going to play that game, then we'll soon be into the Tomlin won the SB with Cowher's team argument.....which I've never supported.

That was a sidebar to my point. Yes, Tomlin has the better QB, but Harbaugh has had better individual talent on defense.

To the comment regarding developing players - I don't support that 'Cowher's team' argument either. However.....in his tenure, Tomlin (and Colbert) has drafted and developed: Lawrence Timmons, Lamarr Woodley, Mike Wallace, Maurkice Pouncey, Antonio Brown, Cam Heyward, Marcus Gilbert, David Decastro, LeVeon Bell, Ryan Shazier, and Steph Tuitt. All of whom have played at (or near) a pro bowl level for the Steelers. That's not including the last 2 drafts, which look to be very good.

Baltimore? Flacco, Ray Rice, Kelechi Osemele, Kyle Juszczyk, Brandon Williams, and CJ Mosley. Maybe Lardarius Webb & Courtney Upshaw if we're being generous.

[Obviously]

It's amazing the hoops people jump through to discredit Mike Tomlin.

Makes me wonder why...

Treating him EXACTLY like we treated Cowher on these boards (old and new). There's a dime's bit of difference between them. Cowher was eviscerated on these boards until his team won XL. Then we went right back to it in 2006 with the follow up subpar year. Rightly so. The same treatment for Tomlin. Hasn't tasted a SB since he eased into XLV seven years ago. Are you wondering why now?

[FortyThree]

It's amazing the hoops people jump through to discredit Mike Tomlin.

Makes me wonder why...

Treating him EXACTLY like we treated Cowher on these boards (old and new). There's a dime's bit of difference between them. Cowher was eviscerated on these boards until his team won XL. Then we went right back to it in 2006 with the follow up subpar year. Rightly so. The same treatment for Tomlin. Hasn't tasted a SB since he eased into XLV seven years ago. Are you wondering why now?

Unless you are are providing examples of "stupidity" being the reason, then yes.

[Legacy User]

It's amazing the hoops people jump through to discredit Mike Tomlin.

Makes me wonder why...

Treating him EXACTLY like we treated Cowher on these boards (old and new). There's a dime's bit of difference between them. Cowher was eviscerated on these boards until his team won XL. Then we went right back to it in 2006 with the follow up subpar year. Rightly so. The same treatment for Tomlin. Hasn't tasted a SB since he eased into XLV seven years ago. Are you wondering why now?

Unless you are are providing examples of "stupidity" being the reason, then yes.

just my .02 cents, id take Harbaugh over Tomlin for the reasons already stated...and he wasn't perfect but id take cowher over either of them.

[Obviously]

It's amazing the hoops people jump through to discredit Mike Tomlin.

Makes me wonder why...

Treating him EXACTLY like we treated Cowher on these boards (old and new). There's a dime's bit of difference between them. Cowher was eviscerated on these boards until his team won XL. Then we went right back to it in 2006 with the follow up subpar year. Rightly so. The same treatment for Tomlin. Hasn't tasted a SB since he eased into XLV seven years ago. Are you wondering why now?

Unless you are are providing examples of "stupidity" being the reason, then yes.

I don't think Tomlin is stupid. I think he's pretty smart. He's made some pretty stupid decisions over the years, but he's not alone there. Examples are 3rd and 7 vs. Jags in '07 playoffs. Allowing AB to extend hos record at the huge risk of sealing a win a few seasns ago.

I disagree with Swiss on the Harbaugh thing. I would rather have Tomlin. But Harbaugh has found ways of beating the Patriots. So has Coughlin. So has Gary Kubiak, John Fox and Rex Ryan. Tomlin has beaten BB only twice, the last time six years ago. Again, he's no better or worse than Cowher here. Are you advocating Tomlin is the better coach and should be treated better than we treated Cowher?

[Pabst]

just my .02 cents, id take Harbaugh over Tomlin for the reasons already stated...and he wasn't perfect but id take cowher over either of them.

Because he beat the Pats in the postseason 4 years ago, and......apparently that's it. Reminder that the 1st playoff win over NE was followed up by a blowout loss in Indy, so I really don't get why that's an argument.

[Legacy User]

just my .02 cents, id take Harbaugh over Tomlin for the reasons already stated...and he wasn't perfect but id take cowher over either of them.

Because he beat the Pats in the postseason 4 years ago, and......apparently that's it. Reminder that the 1st playoff win over NE was followed up by a blowout loss in Indy, so I really don't get why that's an argument.

Attention to details and game day tactician as previously stated, I think Harbaugh is better than Tomlin in those 2 areas. Tomlin is probably the better motivator. I think Harbaugh has done as much and in some cases more than Tomlin with lesser overall talent and for sure at the QB position which trumps any other position on the field.

[Pabst]

just my .02 cents, id take Harbaugh over Tomlin for the reasons already stated...and he wasn't perfect but id take cowher over either of them.

Because he beat the Pats in the postseason 4 years ago, and......apparently that's it. Reminder that the 1st playoff win over NE was followed up by a blowout loss in Indy, so I really don't get why that's an argument.

Attention to details and game day tactician as previously stated, I think Harbaugh is better than Tomlin in those 2 areas. Tomlin is probably the better motivator. I think Harbaugh has done as much and in some cases more than Tomlin with lesser overall talent and for sure at the QB position which trumps any other position on the field.

Ugh.
Tomlin has more division titles since 2008 (4 vs 2). And that gap is likely to grow this year.
Tomlin has appeared in 2 Super Bowls vs. Harbaugh's 1.
Tomlin has the better overall record

The talent argument doesn't hold much water because coaches are intimately involved with selecting and developing players - and Tomlin has the better track record.

If people held Harbaugh under the same microscope as Tomlin, this wouldn't be an argument.

[Legacy User]

[abst"]

just my .02 cents, id take Harbaugh over Tomlin for the reasons already stated...and he wasn't perfect but id take cowher over either of them.

Because he beat the Pats in the postseason 4 years ago, and......apparently that's it. Reminder that the 1st playoff win over NE was followed up by a blowout loss in Indy, so I really don't get why that's an argument.

Attention to details and game day tactician as previously stated, I think Harbaugh is better than Tomlin in those 2 areas. Tomlin is probably the better motivator. I think Harbaugh has done as much and in some cases more than Tomlin with lesser overall talent and for sure at the QB position which trumps any other position on the field.

Ugh.
Tomlin has more division titles since 2008 (4 vs 2). And that gap is likely to grow this year.
Tomlin has appeared in 2 Super Bowls vs. Harbaugh's 1.
Tomlin has the better overall record



Tomlin looked better with Cowhers players
The talent argument doesn't hold much water because coaches are intimately involved with selecting and developing players - and Tomlin has the better track record.

If people held Harbaugh under the same microscope as Tomlin, this wouldn't be an argument.[/quote]

[steelcountry]

There was a time a few years ago that you could conceivably argue that Harbaugh was a better coach than Tomlin, but I don't see how that argument can even be had at this point. The Ravens are irrelevant for the 3rd year in a row. That falls on two individuals - Newsome and Harbaugh.

I have not always been a big Tomlin fan, though I did realize you could do much worse. His in game management/decisions was lacking, but this year I think he's been much smarter with being aggressive, chasing points, time management, etc.

[Mick]

I would take harbaugh over tomlin in a game against New England, and tomlin in any other game + roster development. I think tomlin's advantages are more conducive to winning another title (I.e. advantage tomlin overall), but being good against New England is a BFD.

[Pabst]

Tomlin looked better with Cowhers players

Aside from this being addressed earlier in the thread, why does this not apply to Harbaugh & Billick?

If i may repeat myself: If people held Harbaugh under the same microscope as Tomlin, this wouldn't be an argument.

[Legacy User]

I would take harbaugh over tomlin in a game against New England, and tomlin in any other game + roster development. I think tomlin's advantages are more conducive to winning another title (I.e. advantage tomlin overall), but being good against New England is a BFD.

you mean except for when we are heavy favorites and on the road?

[Pabst]

I would take harbaugh over tomlin in a game against New England, and tomlin in any other game + roster development. I think tomlin's advantages are more conducive to winning another title (I.e. advantage tomlin overall), but being good against New England is a BFD.

you mean except for when we are heavy favorites and on the road?

Jim Harbaugh: 33-44 career road record
Mike Tomlin: 49-37 career road record

For the third time: If people held Harbaugh under the same microscope as Tomlin, this wouldn't be an argument.

[Legacy User]

I would take harbaugh over tomlin in a game against New England, and tomlin in any other game + roster development. I think tomlin's advantages are more conducive to winning another title (I.e. advantage tomlin overall), but being good against New England is a BFD.

you mean except for when we are heavy favorites and on the road?

Jim Harbaugh: 33-44 career road record
Mike Tomlin: 49-37 career road record

For the third time: If people held Harbaugh under the same microscope as Tomlin, this wouldn't be an argument.

You can say that all you want, and ill still tell you its Bullshit. In my eyes they are very similar, one guy has the edge motivating, the other is a much better game day tactician. Id take Cowher, over either of em, and mostly because Cowher would have the balls to tell the Deuce haley has to go. Hell even Harbaugh fired his inept OC midseason and went on to win a SB.